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Where did I mention skin color? I mentioned "others" and racism. In the case of Irish, it was religious fanaticism ("Others"). For the record, I am not saying

Where did I mention skin color? I mentioned "others" and racism. In the case of Irish, it was religious fanaticism ("Others"). For the record, I am not saying it's not skin color. Primarily it's race/nationality (=~ skin color), and thus british empire falls on the same side of West/Europe/Caucasian people. What other reason is there for the people of west to not treat the atrocities that colonial empires committed (towards brown/black/native people) the same as what Naizs did to white european jews? Especially given what the colonialists were an order of magnitude more cruel in both savagery and the number of people murdered? As with any puritanism movement, there are other factors determining "purity". Aside from skin color, you have religious denomination.

ben_w 7y ago
The phrase that I saw was “killed fellow whites”. I don’t understand what your point is here, I’m afraid — if the reason that the suffering of Jews is recognised is simply because they are part of the “us” group, despite multiple millennia of racial and religious discrimination, why would the Irish count as a “them”? It’s easy to forget how severely “othered” Jews used to be. The only explanation I have for the dichotomy is that the Jewish people were the enemy of the enemy, while conversely the Irish were… I’m not sure which time period to consider, but in my youth they were “terrorists”, which I guess made “them” a direct enemy in popular discourse at roughly the same time that Jews were unambiguously innocent victims. The same model also explains why communists killed in the holocaust are ignored in half the often quoted death statistics: communists were the enemy in this period, rather than the poor innocent victim of the brutal regime whose destruction was totally a pyrrhic victory (for the Empire) that had to be justified.
- quetzthecoatl 7y ago
  >> if the reason that the suffering of Jews is recognised is simply because they are part of the “us” group, despite multiple millennia of racial and religious discrimination, why would the Irish count as a “them”? Jews were them until and during the WW2 (even now as per some section of western populace). Antisemitism was officially declared church doctrine in various denominations (even today Polish easter celebration happens with the effigy burning of a stereotypical jew). Antisemitism was not just in Nazi Germany. It was the norm all over the Europe. Jews suffering got recognized mainly because (IMO) it is a tool to highlight the Nazi horror - the bad guys as per the European lore. My main point is that colonial Briton was worse than Nazi Germany, and Europeans fails to see that (or outright deny it) simply because colonial victims were not fellow whites (and may be tyranny of distance) and it doesn't fit into the Allied good guys vs the Axis bad guys WW2 narrative. My secondary point is that it was just bad guys vs the even worse guys, and the winners white washed their crimes highlighting the losers as the ultimate evil villains from whom they saved the humanity.
  - ben_w 7y ago
    I wonder if we’ve been agreeing with each other this whole time?

ben_w 7y ago

The phrase that I saw was “killed fellow whites”. I don’t understand what your point is here, I’m afraid — if the reason that the suffering of Jews is recognised is simply because they are part of the “us” group, despite multiple millennia of racial and religious discrimination, why would the Irish count as a “them”? It’s easy to forget how severely “othered” Jews used to be. The only explanation I have for the dichotomy is that the Jewish people were the enemy of the enemy, while conversely the Irish were… I’m not sure which time period to consider, but in my youth they were “terrorists”, which I guess made “them” a direct enemy in popular discourse at roughly the same time that Jews were unambiguously innocent victims. The same model also explains why communists killed in the holocaust are ignored in half the often quoted death statistics: communists were the enemy in this period, rather than the poor innocent victim of the brutal regime whose destruction was totally a pyrrhic victory (for the Empire) that had to be justified.

quetzthecoatl 7y ago
>> if the reason that the suffering of Jews is recognised is simply because they are part of the “us” group, despite multiple millennia of racial and religious discrimination, why would the Irish count as a “them”? Jews were them until and during the WW2 (even now as per some section of western populace). Antisemitism was officially declared church doctrine in various denominations (even today Polish easter celebration happens with the effigy burning of a stereotypical jew). Antisemitism was not just in Nazi Germany. It was the norm all over the Europe. Jews suffering got recognized mainly because (IMO) it is a tool to highlight the Nazi horror - the bad guys as per the European lore. My main point is that colonial Briton was worse than Nazi Germany, and Europeans fails to see that (or outright deny it) simply because colonial victims were not fellow whites (and may be tyranny of distance) and it doesn't fit into the Allied good guys vs the Axis bad guys WW2 narrative. My secondary point is that it was just bad guys vs the even worse guys, and the winners white washed their crimes highlighting the losers as the ultimate evil villains from whom they saved the humanity.
- ben_w 7y ago
  I wonder if we’ve been agreeing with each other this whole time?