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I can’t think of any of the big founders that were fat alcoholics - bill gates, Steve Jobs, Zuckerberg, bezos? Pretty sure they all work all the time, as in no

by mjfl 7y ago

I can’t think of any of the big founders that were fat alcoholics - bill gates, Steve Jobs, Zuckerberg, bezos? Pretty sure they all work all the time, as in no weekends, get emails at 11 pm every day, at least when they worked.

everdrive 7y ago
Yes, absolutely. I apologize, I didn't mean to aim this at founders. I was just thinking about overwork in general, and its effects on people.
bluedino 7y ago
Software/IT is full of people working crazy schedules to get their products out. The early days of ID software. They worked their day jobs and then worked nights/weekends to create their own games. The early days of eBay when Pierre Omidyar was up all night fixing the site as it crashed. People at Netscape sleeping under their desks so they didn't waste time driving to/from work.
chrstphrhrt 7y ago
Musk had an overweight phase. I think he likes nice wine.
pbourke 7y ago
There is a vast difference between being at the top of of the apparatus vs being enmeshed in it. A) The people you mention were essentially post scarcity long before they were household names. B) They had substantially more agency in their work than mid and low level workers. C) No one in their work life is akin to a “boss.” They have customers, advisors, peers, employees, investors, etc - no bosses.
- mjfl 7y ago
  Sure, but I think most “workaholics” are attempting to work towards a position like that, if not the founder then a major shareholder of a startup that will make it big, portfolio manager of a big fund, partner at a m&a firm or bank, etc. I think arguing that it’s insane to work 80 hour weeks as a dead end test engineer at a large stagnant company is a straw man. Most people have a tenable goal in mind. And at the end of it I don’t see the majority of them being fat alcoholics.
nescoiquid 7y ago
I don't think there's a chain of valid reasoning that can start with a few very exceptional people (that is to say these people are an exception, whether it be by talent, effort, or luck) and end with any conclusions about what is normative for the burned-out developer.

by mjfl 7y ago

everdrive 7y ago

Yes, absolutely. I apologize, I didn't mean to aim this at founders. I was just thinking about overwork in general, and its effects on people.

bluedino 7y ago

Software/IT is full of people working crazy schedules to get their products out. The early days of ID software. They worked their day jobs and then worked nights/weekends to create their own games. The early days of eBay when Pierre Omidyar was up all night fixing the site as it crashed. People at Netscape sleeping under their desks so they didn't waste time driving to/from work.

chrstphrhrt 7y ago

Musk had an overweight phase. I think he likes nice wine.

pbourke 7y ago

There is a vast difference between being at the top of of the apparatus vs being enmeshed in it. A) The people you mention were essentially post scarcity long before they were household names. B) They had substantially more agency in their work than mid and low level workers. C) No one in their work life is akin to a “boss.” They have customers, advisors, peers, employees, investors, etc - no bosses.

mjfl 7y ago
Sure, but I think most “workaholics” are attempting to work towards a position like that, if not the founder then a major shareholder of a startup that will make it big, portfolio manager of a big fund, partner at a m&a firm or bank, etc. I think arguing that it’s insane to work 80 hour weeks as a dead end test engineer at a large stagnant company is a straw man. Most people have a tenable goal in mind. And at the end of it I don’t see the majority of them being fat alcoholics.

nescoiquid 7y ago

I don't think there's a chain of valid reasoning that can start with a few very exceptional people (that is to say these people are an exception, whether it be by talent, effort, or luck) and end with any conclusions about what is normative for the burned-out developer.