3 ms·

Interesting, I didn't know about the tetris randomizers! https://simon.lc/the-history-of-tetris-randomizers https://simon.lc/the-history-of-tetris-randomizers

by rom1v 7y ago

jchw 7y ago
This article, while a nice summary, does miss some details that are quite important. TGM in particular uses Mersenne Twister as its PRNG, whereas NES Tetris probably uses a linear congruential generator (as was common for many games on 8-bit game consoles to the best of my knowledge.) MT behaves dramatically differently than LCG, and while it may seem like a minor detail, actually feels quite different to play from Math.random implementations I've tried, even when using the same TGM algorithm.
- xxs 7y ago
  flip note: I dunno which 'Math.random' you mean, the Java version should not be used for anything meaningful (perf. related) as it is a shared 'java.util.Random' that exhibits a contention point, albeit a CAS (not synchronized) but a contention point nonetheless. Also generating a double (from 2 ints) to be converted to an int is a bad idea. Should be just 'random.nextInt(7)'
  - jchw 7y ago
    In particular I’m thinking of JavaScript, but the same thing could be said about libc random. In at least a few puzzle games, the PRNG used has noticeable side effects.
    - xxs 7y ago
      The main issue would be naively using mod to obtain a number in range of (0-n].
      - jchw 7y ago
        I understand the issue with modulo bias, but there's plenty of techniques for dealing with that issue. (Not to say that people always do, even in real-world code, but oh well.)
      - rom1v 7y ago
        TBH, I think this is acceptable for a playlist random order, even if it's not perfectly evenly distributed.
- vanderZwan 7y ago
  Wonder how PCG compares then[0]. Maybe it helps to think of these randomizers as noise generators, and then try to figure out what the ideal noise "color" for fun play would be? I guess blue noise for example would be like too predictable random bag generators. [0] http://www.pcg-random.org/ http://www.pcg-random.org/

Interesting, I didn't know about the tetris randomizers! https://simon.lc/the-history-of-tetris-randomizers https://simon.lc/the-history-of-tetris-randomizers

by rom1v 7y ago

Interesting, I didn't know about the tetris randomizers! https://simon.lc/the-history-of-tetris-randomizers https://simon.lc/the-history-of-tetris-randomizers

jchw 7y ago

This article, while a nice summary, does miss some details that are quite important. TGM in particular uses Mersenne Twister as its PRNG, whereas NES Tetris probably uses a linear congruential generator (as was common for many games on 8-bit game consoles to the best of my knowledge.) MT behaves dramatically differently than LCG, and while it may seem like a minor detail, actually feels quite different to play from Math.random implementations I've tried, even when using the same TGM algorithm.

xxs 7y ago
flip note: I dunno which 'Math.random' you mean, the Java version should not be used for anything meaningful (perf. related) as it is a shared 'java.util.Random' that exhibits a contention point, albeit a CAS (not synchronized) but a contention point nonetheless. Also generating a double (from 2 ints) to be converted to an int is a bad idea. Should be just 'random.nextInt(7)'
- jchw 7y ago
  In particular I’m thinking of JavaScript, but the same thing could be said about libc random. In at least a few puzzle games, the PRNG used has noticeable side effects.
  - xxs 7y ago
    The main issue would be naively using mod to obtain a number in range of (0-n].
    - jchw 7y ago
      I understand the issue with modulo bias, but there's plenty of techniques for dealing with that issue. (Not to say that people always do, even in real-world code, but oh well.)
    - rom1v 7y ago
      TBH, I think this is acceptable for a playlist random order, even if it's not perfectly evenly distributed.
vanderZwan 7y ago
Wonder how PCG compares then[0]. Maybe it helps to think of these randomizers as noise generators, and then try to figure out what the ideal noise "color" for fun play would be? I guess blue noise for example would be like too predictable random bag generators. [0] http://www.pcg-random.org/ http://www.pcg-random.org/