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Nonviolent or violent civil resistance can easily be co-opted by other actors like the CIA or KGB for their own nefarious agendas. Be wary of being pawns for as

Nonviolent or violent civil resistance can easily be co-opted by other actors like the CIA or KGB for their own nefarious agendas. Be wary of being pawns for assholes. Transforming your country into a liberal, democratic country requires the fact the country evolved itself into some sort of democracy. Not someone forced that on you through a manufactured war or revolution.

notahacker 7y ago
Popular protest is part of the evolution of a country into some sort of democracy, and it's generally much bigger assholes complaining that every popular protest against them is backed by the CIA/KGB/Iran/Saudis/neighbours (even when that claim has a grain of truth to it...)
chriselles 7y ago
CIA covertly backed Solidarity with non violent aid. In that specific ring fences example, did anyone outside of the Soviet/Polish regimes have issue with it then or since? Would any/many Poles consider it a mistake or criticise the effort or result?
- crispinb 7y ago
  Same with Serbia's Otpor! IIRC there was a fair bit of criticism of them within Serbia for taking American (if not CIA?) funding, and who knows whether that specific act was the right decision. But the did get rid of Milosevic, remarkably peacefully given the nature of the regime.
  - chriselles 7y ago
    I had Otpor! Co-founder Srdja Popovic as a lecturer for a Harvard/JFK School course on non violent social change. It was a really interesting opportunity to learn from someone who has actually led non violent social change, rather than just researching/writing about it. A bit like YC compared to other accelerators. Experience doing over talking. Optor’s ‘Laughtivism” Strategy was quite creative and funny. While it was never discussed, I suspect you may be right about Otpor’s sources of funding. It could be disinformation, but it could also be true.
    - crispinb 7y ago
      Yes well, that's real-world experience in spades - actually taking part in deposing a regime!

notahacker 7y ago

Popular protest is part of the evolution of a country into some sort of democracy, and it's generally much bigger assholes complaining that every popular protest against them is backed by the CIA/KGB/Iran/Saudis/neighbours (even when that claim has a grain of truth to it...)

chriselles 7y ago

CIA covertly backed Solidarity with non violent aid. In that specific ring fences example, did anyone outside of the Soviet/Polish regimes have issue with it then or since? Would any/many Poles consider it a mistake or criticise the effort or result?

crispinb 7y ago
Same with Serbia's Otpor! IIRC there was a fair bit of criticism of them within Serbia for taking American (if not CIA?) funding, and who knows whether that specific act was the right decision. But the did get rid of Milosevic, remarkably peacefully given the nature of the regime.
- chriselles 7y ago
  I had Otpor! Co-founder Srdja Popovic as a lecturer for a Harvard/JFK School course on non violent social change. It was a really interesting opportunity to learn from someone who has actually led non violent social change, rather than just researching/writing about it. A bit like YC compared to other accelerators. Experience doing over talking. Optor’s ‘Laughtivism” Strategy was quite creative and funny. While it was never discussed, I suspect you may be right about Otpor’s sources of funding. It could be disinformation, but it could also be true.
  - crispinb 7y ago
    Yes well, that's real-world experience in spades - actually taking part in deposing a regime!