Frankly I think you're either misunderstanding or misrepresenting my positions. We have been arguing from efficiency right along, but you're now shifting to an

Frankly I think you're either misunderstanding or misrepresenting my positions. We have been arguing from efficiency right along, but you're now shifting to an argument from morality. You posit that it's acceptable for the state to take ownership of its citizens (subjects at that point?) Ultimately that's a position I have to entirely reject. There comes a point where the removal of autonomy to improve a person's life deprives them of what it means to be alive. Your elitist position that you and your experts know so much more than the little people that you can't "allow" them to make their own choices comes off rather poorly. It also comes off as rather short sighted, as politics is often inherently unstable, and all it takes is a "bad politician" to take your well-meaning but authoritarian system and take it full-blown authoritarian. I appreciate your extrapolation on your ideas. While I'm sure neither of us have changed our minds, I find your position interesting and I'm sure others reading have been able to see a small amount of the breadth of the topic at hand.