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> And while we are doing PSAs, I'd like to give one piece of seemingly conflicting advice: make sure you have backups of your multi-factor authentication system

> And while we are doing PSAs, I'd like to give one piece of seemingly conflicting advice: make sure you have backups of your multi-factor authentication systems. Yes! Many password managers (at least KeePassXC/KeePass with plugin) can store and create TOTPs. The underlying keys can be manually shown and entered elsewhere if needed, and can be backed up with everything else that's valuable. > Print out 2-factor backup codes, put them somewhere safe, maybe split them in 2 and put half of the codes in one place, and half in another. Think through possible problems. It really sucks to have your house flood, then find out that your phone with the 2-factor app on it was destroyed, and your backup codes ruined as well... Off site and offline backups are a good thing to have, especially with fire and water proof lockboxes. (think encrypted external drive lying around at work or at family/friend's house)

blu3r4d0n 7y ago
There are also tools to allow you to use those TOTPs without having a phone in general. You can always use those methods instead of using SMS or phones.
Klathmon 7y ago
>Many password managers (at least KeePassXC/KeePass with plugin) can store and create TOTPs. Personally I don't really like this feature and urge people to avoid it for "high security accounts". It's not a "second factor" if it's stored and input using the same device and authentication information as your "first factor" (your username and password). That's not to say it's useless, at the very least it's another layer that attackers have to figure out. But the true benefits of 2FA come from needing multiple devices to access accounts. If all of the factors are stored in one program on one device, then in the situation where that device/program is cracked, the attackers have everything. Still, if you are going to choose between no 2FA and "2FA stored in your password manager", choose the password manager! And if you are going to choose between SMS-2FA, and the password manager, choose the password manager! But if you really want better security for not much more work, store your 2FA on a different device!
- graeme 7y ago
  What's a good secondary service to store the TOTP codes separate from passcodes? Authy, from what I understand, requires a phone number as backup, meaning it could be compromised by the same method Google authenticator can't be backedup, which is royally annoying when you change/lose devices Lastpass has some security issues, and one well known comment here has recommended no one use it. I heard someone say they use Duo security: does that let you store codes? When I looked it just seemed to lock various services
  - yellingdog 7y ago
    You can back up the Key used to set up the TOTP system. This allows you to re-seed the TOTP generator on a new device without needing to go through setup.
  - Klathmon 7y ago
    Personally I use Google Authenticator. The lack of a backup is a feature not a con IMO. Every account I have setup with TOTP I also make sure to print out the recovery codes and put them in a safe, and use them if my device is ever destroyed. When I switch phones (which for me happens maybe once every 2-3 years at most), I go through the shitty process of transferring the TOTP codes over to the new device, but it doesn't really take all that long (it took me an hour to do it for about a dozen accounts last time I did it), and I'd much rather not have any of it uploaded anywhere. You can print out the QR code or save that somehow during setup and use that to setup TOTP codes on other devices (or the same TOTP on multiple devices), but I tend not to do that as recovery codes work just as well, and they notify you if they are used (unlike a TOTP setup QR code). I did have to store the QR code for one account that doesn't provide recovery codes, but it's overall not that much extra work.
    - bigiain 7y ago
      This is good advice. I also have my TOTP set up on at least two devices, my phone, my previous phone, and my iPad. (Both phones because it's fairly common for me to have both my current phone and my iPad with me at the same time. It's spectacularly rare for me to have all three devices with me outside my home.)

blu3r4d0n 7y ago

There are also tools to allow you to use those TOTPs without having a phone in general. You can always use those methods instead of using SMS or phones.

Klathmon 7y ago

>Many password managers (at least KeePassXC/KeePass with plugin) can store and create TOTPs. Personally I don't really like this feature and urge people to avoid it for "high security accounts". It's not a "second factor" if it's stored and input using the same device and authentication information as your "first factor" (your username and password). That's not to say it's useless, at the very least it's another layer that attackers have to figure out. But the true benefits of 2FA come from needing multiple devices to access accounts. If all of the factors are stored in one program on one device, then in the situation where that device/program is cracked, the attackers have everything. Still, if you are going to choose between no 2FA and "2FA stored in your password manager", choose the password manager! And if you are going to choose between SMS-2FA, and the password manager, choose the password manager! But if you really want better security for not much more work, store your 2FA on a different device!

graeme 7y ago
What's a good secondary service to store the TOTP codes separate from passcodes? Authy, from what I understand, requires a phone number as backup, meaning it could be compromised by the same method Google authenticator can't be backedup, which is royally annoying when you change/lose devices Lastpass has some security issues, and one well known comment here has recommended no one use it. I heard someone say they use Duo security: does that let you store codes? When I looked it just seemed to lock various services
- yellingdog 7y ago
  You can back up the Key used to set up the TOTP system. This allows you to re-seed the TOTP generator on a new device without needing to go through setup.
- Klathmon 7y ago
  Personally I use Google Authenticator. The lack of a backup is a feature not a con IMO. Every account I have setup with TOTP I also make sure to print out the recovery codes and put them in a safe, and use them if my device is ever destroyed. When I switch phones (which for me happens maybe once every 2-3 years at most), I go through the shitty process of transferring the TOTP codes over to the new device, but it doesn't really take all that long (it took me an hour to do it for about a dozen accounts last time I did it), and I'd much rather not have any of it uploaded anywhere. You can print out the QR code or save that somehow during setup and use that to setup TOTP codes on other devices (or the same TOTP on multiple devices), but I tend not to do that as recovery codes work just as well, and they notify you if they are used (unlike a TOTP setup QR code). I did have to store the QR code for one account that doesn't provide recovery codes, but it's overall not that much extra work.
  - bigiain 7y ago
    This is good advice. I also have my TOTP set up on at least two devices, my phone, my previous phone, and my iPad. (Both phones because it's fairly common for me to have both my current phone and my iPad with me at the same time. It's spectacularly rare for me to have all three devices with me outside my home.)