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> Loss of MagSafe (this one still hurts). I will NEVER forgive them for this. Jobs was RIGHT when he said this was a major innovation over everyone else. Now

> Loss of MagSafe (this one still hurts). I will NEVER forgive them for this. Jobs was RIGHT when he said this was a major innovation over everyone else. Now Apple is either saying he was wrong or THEY are wrong. They're not BOTH right. My 2015 is the last MBP I will ever buy and it's aging fast... I think it's hackingtosh from here on out. I primarily use Ubuntu but I have to have a Mac as our app runs cross platform and I need somethign to test with.

stoppergoo 7y ago
Really just the MagSafe is the big difference they lost. Supposedly the keyboard sucks, why don’t they just fix it or go back to the previous iteration. Either way I think these are still the best notebooks you can buy. Ubuntu doesn’t even work right on my dell desktop - it never remembers dual monitor settings, even with Nvidia official drivers installed. When I open my MacBook Air I can just use it without waiting or worrying. That much is still the same; except now you have to worry about someone tripping over your power cord
- ridicter 7y ago
  For what it's worth, my multi-monitor settings are remembered just fine in Ubuntu 19.04. I _just_ switched from Macbook Pro to Dell XPS 13/Ubuntu, and I couldn't get multi-monitor to work for Ubuntu 18.04, but everything worked out of box for 19.04. But I don't know if upgrading will mess with any legacy config you may have!
  - stoppergoo 7y ago
    Thanks!!! I am upgraded from 14 to 18 and was disappointed that not even Ubuntu got multi monitor to remember basic settings properly. I’ll give 19 a shot then !!
- Osiris 7y ago
  Going back would be admitting they were wrong, and they couldn't say "the thinnest MacBook ever" at their next announcement.
- computerex 7y ago
  > Either way I think these are still the best notebooks you can buy. Five years ago you could make that statement and not have to think twice about it. However now there is too much competition. 1. Dell XPS 2. Matebook X Pro 3. Asus Zenbook Pro These are just 3 laptops off the top of my head that can compete with the latest and greatest Macbook Pro and come out arguably better. The keyboard, thermal issues and touchbar have really hurt the latest macbook pro. Apple needs to admit they are wrong, ditch the shitty butterfly keyboard and fix the random issues that have started plaguing the Macbook in Apple's quest for thinness.
  - stoppergoo 7y ago
    I’ve borrowed recent fancy dell XPS 1-2 year old from IT, used and abused by previous employees. They don’t hold up well at all. Trackpad feels crap compared to my 5 year old mb air, screens suck, keyboard feels meh. They might start out nice but they deteriorate really quickly from my firsthand sampling The old MacBooks I’ve used from IT, however, still function like original except for the visual wear and tear you see and the ugh of using something all scratched up
    - computerex 7y ago
      Check out ebay, it's filled with used/old xps notebooks in good condition. Your single experience isn't necessarily reality. I agree that nothing competes with apple for the trackpad experience. But the screen on latest XPS beats the Macbook Pro. The XPS also offers a much better keyboard experience compared to the butterfly keyboard. And it's keyboard isn't inherently flawed and susceptible to malfunctioning due to dust. I agree older macbooks were simply amazing and definitely a cut above the rest. But my point is that compared to the latest macbook pro, the 3 laptops I mentioned are very good competitors. It didn't used to be like this. Apple may have produced very reliable laptops many years ago, but that's no longer the case.
  - pfranz 7y ago
    I last looked a few years ago and was disappointed at the non-Apple selection (because I was disappointed at the Apple selection, too). I was looking at 13" models. Comparable PCs were very similar in form factor--non-replacable RAM and a 1tb SSD option (either included or added later myself) took the cost very close to each other. I know Apple laptops have a decent resale value and I'm familiar and comfortable with Apple's warranty and service (others might be great, too, but that'd be an unknown for me). I needed a webcam for work and having it by the keyboard was a no-go. I know this recently changed and I was very disappointed a brand new Macbook Pro has the exact same camera a 2009 model had. They all had a similarly poor situation with USB-C, too. Either none, 1 for charging and like 1 USB-A port, or only 2-4 USB-C ports. Looking at the failure rates and support for each brand, a trackpad and keyboard that wasn't as good, having to use Linux (I wasn't planning on using Windows), none of them looked any better. I wish there was better competition (at least for what I'm looking for) and I wish Apple would fix the things everyone liked about the 2015. Not all of it is thinness...I miss a charging light and battery meter, give better non-touchbar options (I'd like touch ID and more USB-C ports), upgrade your camera for Pete's sake.
- closetohome 7y ago
  I think everyone is just using "reliability" as an opportunity to whine about the feel of the keyboard. Which is silly, because after using one for a year and then going back to my Air, that keyboard feels mushy and unresponsive. The original 12" MacBook keyboard had actual issues with ergonomics and usability - successive versions did not.
dcosson 7y ago
I guess I'm the only one that thinks USB-C is actually better? The biggest win is that now I can use a single dongle for power, displayport to my monitor, and connection to a USB hub. So if I take my laptop home or into a meeting room, when I get back to my desk it's just a single thing to plug in now instead of 3+ separate cables. And since this stuff is all standardized now and there's no longer anything Apple proprietary like Thunderbolt 1, I would guess other makers will follow suit eventually and most monitors will support it directly without even needing a dongle. Plus the MagSafe port was not without problems - every few months I would get like a little magnetic pebble or something stuck in there, and then it's plugged in but not charging charging and usually I'd realize when my laptop is almost dead and then have to find something small to try to pluck it out of there. The USB-C port doesn't have this issue and it's still a relatively small port with very low resistance to being pulled out. Tripping over the power cord just has never really been an issue for me, it kinda seems overblown (knock on wood though, I guess). I do miss the external LED that showed whether you were connected to power or not and whether it was fully charged, it would be nice if they found a way to add that back on the side of the laptop or something since it can no longer be on the cable itself with a standard USB-C cable.
- stephenr 7y ago
  It’s not just you. I don’t get the whining about lack of USB type-a ports or the sd card slot and hdmi port. One, ONE $30 adapter gives you all of those and you have 3 TB3 ports still to use, AND it will read more memory card formats. Edit: AND it will have more USB-A ports than the old MBP had! I saw a manufacturer a while ago had a little magnetic adapter for a USB-c power port, too. Oh and the common complaint about flash drives - I bought one with type a one end, and type-c the other for about $12 I think. The added functionality of TB3 far outweighs any of the small losses IMO. Edit2: sd card not ssd card.
  - graeme 7y ago
    >One, ONE $30 adapter gives you all of those That's not how TB3 works though. Those cheap dongles don't necessarily pass through correctly, and this can lead to all manner of problems when you have sensitive equipment connected. Lots of reports of audio issues on USB C Macs when using external dongles, for example. The actual TB3 hubs cost $150 minimum iirc. This may not cause trouble in your own use case, but it's definitely potential cause for concern for people that need a lot of I/O
pazimzadeh 7y ago
Could it be that battery life is so much better now, so people don’t have their computers plugged in as much of the time when working?
wDcBKgt66V8WDs 7y ago
I have a USB-C only Lenovo (well I guess it has USB-A but I never use it, I'm all in bluetooth/USB-C) and a latest gen Mac Air. I've got a USB-C charging cable for each, a dock at home and at the office that is USB-C (and manages peripherals including monitor). Seriously a "PC" and Mac sharing all the same chargers and docking solutions. This is incredible. I never had a Mac with mag safe so maybe I just don't know what I'm missing, but the practicality of plugging in ONE cable and that same cable works between both machines and I can bring both with me places without fretting about chargers.
- pfranz 7y ago
  When I got my 2017 MBP and was comparing PCs I either wanted Magsafe-like or USB-c (Surface is magsafe-like). I ended up with a Macbook Pro. Late one night a few months after getting it I forgot a charger and ran to Target, then Wal-Mart looking for a USB-C charger and everything was still proprietary chargers. Maybe one of the display units had USB-C charging, but they didn't sell standalone chargers. USB-C had been around at least since 2015 so I didn't think I was that early of an adopter... At least this seems to have changed a bit. Like you said, it's so nice to charge non-Apple headphones or my Switch without hunting for extra cables.
  - wDcBKgt66V8WDs 7y ago
    Ha! Totally forgot the Switch is USB-C, I just moved and realized I left both of my chargers in my previous apartment and now both laptops are dying, but I have the Switch!!
spookybones 7y ago
The green LED sucks. I would charge my 2012 MacBook Pro in my bedroom, but can’t because of the light. Also, I can’t charge it and use the laptop in my lap because the MagSafe falls off easily. The new charger solves both of these problems.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  Can you put some tape over the LED?
torstenvl 7y ago
Have you tried one of the numerous solutions out there? Unlike MagSafe, the higher-end ones aren't limited to just power. https://www.engadget.com/2019/02/11/thundermag-magsafe-thunderbolt-3/ https://www.engadget.com/2019/02/11/thundermag-magsafe-thund... There are a lot of things to complain about with the newer MacBook Pros (like not offering a hardware function row without hobbling the machine). I think the MagSafe removal is one of the least strong of them.
ratsimihah 7y ago
It's not ageing that fast. Mine has a 1TB drive and I'm too lazy to wipe it clean but I'm sure with a clean wipe it would run like new. The keyboard is still intact, all of the hardware in fact.
wlll 7y ago
Here's the announcement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeqF7zcBOVA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeqF7zcBOVA It was revolutionary, and they removed it.

stoppergoo 7y ago

Really just the MagSafe is the big difference they lost. Supposedly the keyboard sucks, why don’t they just fix it or go back to the previous iteration. Either way I think these are still the best notebooks you can buy. Ubuntu doesn’t even work right on my dell desktop - it never remembers dual monitor settings, even with Nvidia official drivers installed. When I open my MacBook Air I can just use it without waiting or worrying. That much is still the same; except now you have to worry about someone tripping over your power cord

ridicter 7y ago
For what it's worth, my multi-monitor settings are remembered just fine in Ubuntu 19.04. I _just_ switched from Macbook Pro to Dell XPS 13/Ubuntu, and I couldn't get multi-monitor to work for Ubuntu 18.04, but everything worked out of box for 19.04. But I don't know if upgrading will mess with any legacy config you may have!
- stoppergoo 7y ago
  Thanks!!! I am upgraded from 14 to 18 and was disappointed that not even Ubuntu got multi monitor to remember basic settings properly. I’ll give 19 a shot then !!
Osiris 7y ago
Going back would be admitting they were wrong, and they couldn't say "the thinnest MacBook ever" at their next announcement.
computerex 7y ago
> Either way I think these are still the best notebooks you can buy. Five years ago you could make that statement and not have to think twice about it. However now there is too much competition. 1. Dell XPS 2. Matebook X Pro 3. Asus Zenbook Pro These are just 3 laptops off the top of my head that can compete with the latest and greatest Macbook Pro and come out arguably better. The keyboard, thermal issues and touchbar have really hurt the latest macbook pro. Apple needs to admit they are wrong, ditch the shitty butterfly keyboard and fix the random issues that have started plaguing the Macbook in Apple's quest for thinness.
- stoppergoo 7y ago
  I’ve borrowed recent fancy dell XPS 1-2 year old from IT, used and abused by previous employees. They don’t hold up well at all. Trackpad feels crap compared to my 5 year old mb air, screens suck, keyboard feels meh. They might start out nice but they deteriorate really quickly from my firsthand sampling The old MacBooks I’ve used from IT, however, still function like original except for the visual wear and tear you see and the ugh of using something all scratched up
  - computerex 7y ago
    Check out ebay, it's filled with used/old xps notebooks in good condition. Your single experience isn't necessarily reality. I agree that nothing competes with apple for the trackpad experience. But the screen on latest XPS beats the Macbook Pro. The XPS also offers a much better keyboard experience compared to the butterfly keyboard. And it's keyboard isn't inherently flawed and susceptible to malfunctioning due to dust. I agree older macbooks were simply amazing and definitely a cut above the rest. But my point is that compared to the latest macbook pro, the 3 laptops I mentioned are very good competitors. It didn't used to be like this. Apple may have produced very reliable laptops many years ago, but that's no longer the case.
- pfranz 7y ago
  I last looked a few years ago and was disappointed at the non-Apple selection (because I was disappointed at the Apple selection, too). I was looking at 13" models. Comparable PCs were very similar in form factor--non-replacable RAM and a 1tb SSD option (either included or added later myself) took the cost very close to each other. I know Apple laptops have a decent resale value and I'm familiar and comfortable with Apple's warranty and service (others might be great, too, but that'd be an unknown for me). I needed a webcam for work and having it by the keyboard was a no-go. I know this recently changed and I was very disappointed a brand new Macbook Pro has the exact same camera a 2009 model had. They all had a similarly poor situation with USB-C, too. Either none, 1 for charging and like 1 USB-A port, or only 2-4 USB-C ports. Looking at the failure rates and support for each brand, a trackpad and keyboard that wasn't as good, having to use Linux (I wasn't planning on using Windows), none of them looked any better. I wish there was better competition (at least for what I'm looking for) and I wish Apple would fix the things everyone liked about the 2015. Not all of it is thinness...I miss a charging light and battery meter, give better non-touchbar options (I'd like touch ID and more USB-C ports), upgrade your camera for Pete's sake.
closetohome 7y ago
I think everyone is just using "reliability" as an opportunity to whine about the feel of the keyboard. Which is silly, because after using one for a year and then going back to my Air, that keyboard feels mushy and unresponsive. The original 12" MacBook keyboard had actual issues with ergonomics and usability - successive versions did not.

dcosson 7y ago

I guess I'm the only one that thinks USB-C is actually better? The biggest win is that now I can use a single dongle for power, displayport to my monitor, and connection to a USB hub. So if I take my laptop home or into a meeting room, when I get back to my desk it's just a single thing to plug in now instead of 3+ separate cables. And since this stuff is all standardized now and there's no longer anything Apple proprietary like Thunderbolt 1, I would guess other makers will follow suit eventually and most monitors will support it directly without even needing a dongle. Plus the MagSafe port was not without problems - every few months I would get like a little magnetic pebble or something stuck in there, and then it's plugged in but not charging charging and usually I'd realize when my laptop is almost dead and then have to find something small to try to pluck it out of there. The USB-C port doesn't have this issue and it's still a relatively small port with very low resistance to being pulled out. Tripping over the power cord just has never really been an issue for me, it kinda seems overblown (knock on wood though, I guess). I do miss the external LED that showed whether you were connected to power or not and whether it was fully charged, it would be nice if they found a way to add that back on the side of the laptop or something since it can no longer be on the cable itself with a standard USB-C cable.

stephenr 7y ago
It’s not just you. I don’t get the whining about lack of USB type-a ports or the sd card slot and hdmi port. One, ONE $30 adapter gives you all of those and you have 3 TB3 ports still to use, AND it will read more memory card formats. Edit: AND it will have more USB-A ports than the old MBP had! I saw a manufacturer a while ago had a little magnetic adapter for a USB-c power port, too. Oh and the common complaint about flash drives - I bought one with type a one end, and type-c the other for about $12 I think. The added functionality of TB3 far outweighs any of the small losses IMO. Edit2: sd card not ssd card.
- graeme 7y ago
  >One, ONE $30 adapter gives you all of those That's not how TB3 works though. Those cheap dongles don't necessarily pass through correctly, and this can lead to all manner of problems when you have sensitive equipment connected. Lots of reports of audio issues on USB C Macs when using external dongles, for example. The actual TB3 hubs cost $150 minimum iirc. This may not cause trouble in your own use case, but it's definitely potential cause for concern for people that need a lot of I/O

pazimzadeh 7y ago

Could it be that battery life is so much better now, so people don’t have their computers plugged in as much of the time when working?

wDcBKgt66V8WDs 7y ago

I have a USB-C only Lenovo (well I guess it has USB-A but I never use it, I'm all in bluetooth/USB-C) and a latest gen Mac Air. I've got a USB-C charging cable for each, a dock at home and at the office that is USB-C (and manages peripherals including monitor). Seriously a "PC" and Mac sharing all the same chargers and docking solutions. This is incredible. I never had a Mac with mag safe so maybe I just don't know what I'm missing, but the practicality of plugging in ONE cable and that same cable works between both machines and I can bring both with me places without fretting about chargers.

pfranz 7y ago
When I got my 2017 MBP and was comparing PCs I either wanted Magsafe-like or USB-c (Surface is magsafe-like). I ended up with a Macbook Pro. Late one night a few months after getting it I forgot a charger and ran to Target, then Wal-Mart looking for a USB-C charger and everything was still proprietary chargers. Maybe one of the display units had USB-C charging, but they didn't sell standalone chargers. USB-C had been around at least since 2015 so I didn't think I was that early of an adopter... At least this seems to have changed a bit. Like you said, it's so nice to charge non-Apple headphones or my Switch without hunting for extra cables.
- wDcBKgt66V8WDs 7y ago
  Ha! Totally forgot the Switch is USB-C, I just moved and realized I left both of my chargers in my previous apartment and now both laptops are dying, but I have the Switch!!

spookybones 7y ago

The green LED sucks. I would charge my 2012 MacBook Pro in my bedroom, but can’t because of the light. Also, I can’t charge it and use the laptop in my lap because the MagSafe falls off easily. The new charger solves both of these problems.

saagarjha 7y ago
Can you put some tape over the LED?

torstenvl 7y ago

Have you tried one of the numerous solutions out there? Unlike MagSafe, the higher-end ones aren't limited to just power. https://www.engadget.com/2019/02/11/thundermag-magsafe-thunderbolt-3/ https://www.engadget.com/2019/02/11/thundermag-magsafe-thund... There are a lot of things to complain about with the newer MacBook Pros (like not offering a hardware function row without hobbling the machine). I think the MagSafe removal is one of the least strong of them.

ratsimihah 7y ago

It's not ageing that fast. Mine has a 1TB drive and I'm too lazy to wipe it clean but I'm sure with a clean wipe it would run like new. The keyboard is still intact, all of the hardware in fact.

wlll 7y ago

Here's the announcement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeqF7zcBOVA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeqF7zcBOVA It was revolutionary, and they removed it.