6 ms·

Self-Driving Trucks Will Carry Mail in U.S.

54 points by prostoalex 7y ago

deleted 7y ago
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exabrial 7y ago
Why are we _still_ delivering paper? There is 0 reason to be doing this in the communication age. Millions of tons of CO2 and acres of forests could be saved.
- Blackthorn 7y ago
  I get vastly more spam paper than actual mail. As long as it is effective as a spam vector it will continue.
- wavefunction 7y ago
  The USPS is largely funded by the direct-mail advertising industry, all the "junk mail" that ends up in your favorite mail receptacle. It's sad but that's the state of affairs Congress has forced them into. Switching to electronic delivery makes it much easier to avoid those promotions and also removes the primary revenue source for the USPS.
  - ghaff 7y ago
    >It's sad but that's the state of affairs Congress has forced them into. I'm not sure what's being asked here. So direct mail is a source of profits for the USPS that effectively subsidizes first class mail (and perhaps other things). Personally, I'd not be in favor of a sharp price increase to mail a letter as the price for getting rid of direct mail. (Which, in any case, covers a fairly wide spectrum of "junk" from stuff I throw away unopened to catalogs that I'll at least flip through to offers that I'll at least consider.) Among unsolicited contacts, direct mail is pretty far down the list of things that annoy me.
    - wavefunction 7y ago
      USPS is forced into this arrangement by Congressional mandate they pre-fund pension agreements. We could fund the USPS as a social good, if people would realize what is actually good in their lives and worth funding.
- save_ferris 7y ago
  Paper records can't be remotely hacked, accessed, and deleted. Most finance people I know operate digitally but archive using paper. Vint Cerf, an integral figure in internet lore, fears that much of the knowledge gained in the 21st century will eventually be lost due to our inability to preserve and reformat digital data[0]. Going fully digital has its costs too. [0]: https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-31450389 https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-31450389
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  - sandworm101 7y ago
    I know such people too. The problem is that when things go south, those paper backups mean next to nothing. No bank is going to ever use your paper reciepts to correct something electronic.
    - JumpCrisscross 7y ago
      > No bank is going to ever use your paper reciepts to correct something electronic What's your basis for this? Attaching a copy of paper documents to formal requests is routine. Those original receipts, furthermore, are admissible as evidence in court.
      - sandworm101 7y ago
        Ya, but the bank doesnt accept the paper. The court accepts the paper (with associated witnesses) and the bank accepts the court order. There are just too many cases of fraud involving paper. Waving a balance statement in front of a bank manager will get you nowhere.
- izzydata 7y ago
  I'm fine with the delivery of paper mail, but the idea of unsolicited paper mail is unacceptable. Nothing should ever be delivered to my house that I didn't agree to.
  - jedberg 7y ago
    That unsolicited mail is what keeps it cheap though. Without that, a stamp would cost a few dollars each. Chances are all the people who send you paper that you do want would want to charge you for the privilege if it cost that much.
    - izzydata 7y ago
      That sounds terrible to me. I fully support the idea of paper mail costing a lot if it reduces the amount that is sent.
    - tathougies 7y ago
      One possibility is to simply attach an advertisement to each piece of mail sent. If you disclose what's inside (often done for insurance purposes), then they can even match it up to the best ad.
      - munk-a 7y ago
        Advertising is a form of waste in our society - we need to stop coming up with ways to excuse it and just work on eliminating it entirely.
        tathougies 7y ago
        Meh. I love mail advertising. Get all my coupons in and pay less for the same stuff. That being said, thank you for paying full price, so I don't have to!
        munk-a 7y ago
        I don't pay full price in that scenario, I pay over full price. You end up paying full price. At any rate, I actually just avoid the supermarket near me that has a circular and go to the one that averages lower prices but without those "killer deals". I'm not doing poorly for myself so I'd be happy to subsidize people less well off (which ideally would all be consolidated into my taxes) but I think the cost in terms of time and paper goods couponing levies on society is simply not worth it.
- bdamm 7y ago
  Paper letters and artifacts that show up in my actual physical mailbox that someone had to put an actual stamp on to get delivered gets my attention in a way that email rarely does. All of my email accounts are a dumpster fire of spam. Gmail, private servers, work accounts via Office360, all of it is overflowing with trash. It is now common practice for someone to call or text after sending an email to make sure that people know to look for it. And one of the most important senders of mail is the government. Don't take that away or we'll have "The Sheriff is calling" scammers taking it to a whole new level. That's why we're still delivering paper. Because it costs more than email.
- yellowapple 7y ago
  USPS doesn't just deliver letters. Their parcel/box volume is on the same scale (if not greater) than the private carriers like UPS and FedEx (and in fact includes a considerable amount of UPS and FedEx volume via SurePost and SmartPost, respectively; these self-driving trucks probably won't be carrying much of that, since SurePost/SmartPost are only last-mile, and these trucks are the opposite of last-mile).
- djhaskin987 7y ago
  Odds are you're burning coal right now so that you can read this comment. It's so funny to me when people cite the environment when taking of paper. Paper requires no power to use, and is therefore miles better for the environment than your laptop is.
  - exabrial 7y ago
    Actually, nuclear, wind, and natural gas where I live. :)
melling 7y ago
A duplicate of this story that is still on the front page of HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19969133 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19969133
woodandsteel 7y ago
Now all we need are robots that can write, send, and read snail mail, and we can eliminate human beings entirely.

54 points by prostoalex 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

Why are we _still_ delivering paper? There is 0 reason to be doing this in the communication age. Millions of tons of CO2 and acres of forests could be saved.

Blackthorn 7y ago
I get vastly more spam paper than actual mail. As long as it is effective as a spam vector it will continue.
wavefunction 7y ago
The USPS is largely funded by the direct-mail advertising industry, all the "junk mail" that ends up in your favorite mail receptacle. It's sad but that's the state of affairs Congress has forced them into. Switching to electronic delivery makes it much easier to avoid those promotions and also removes the primary revenue source for the USPS.
- ghaff 7y ago
  >It's sad but that's the state of affairs Congress has forced them into. I'm not sure what's being asked here. So direct mail is a source of profits for the USPS that effectively subsidizes first class mail (and perhaps other things). Personally, I'd not be in favor of a sharp price increase to mail a letter as the price for getting rid of direct mail. (Which, in any case, covers a fairly wide spectrum of "junk" from stuff I throw away unopened to catalogs that I'll at least flip through to offers that I'll at least consider.) Among unsolicited contacts, direct mail is pretty far down the list of things that annoy me.
  - wavefunction 7y ago
    USPS is forced into this arrangement by Congressional mandate they pre-fund pension agreements. We could fund the USPS as a social good, if people would realize what is actually good in their lives and worth funding.
save_ferris 7y ago
Paper records can't be remotely hacked, accessed, and deleted. Most finance people I know operate digitally but archive using paper. Vint Cerf, an integral figure in internet lore, fears that much of the knowledge gained in the 21st century will eventually be lost due to our inability to preserve and reformat digital data[0]. Going fully digital has its costs too. [0]: https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-31450389 https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-31450389
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- sandworm101 7y ago
  I know such people too. The problem is that when things go south, those paper backups mean next to nothing. No bank is going to ever use your paper reciepts to correct something electronic.
  - JumpCrisscross 7y ago
    > No bank is going to ever use your paper reciepts to correct something electronic What's your basis for this? Attaching a copy of paper documents to formal requests is routine. Those original receipts, furthermore, are admissible as evidence in court.
    - sandworm101 7y ago
      Ya, but the bank doesnt accept the paper. The court accepts the paper (with associated witnesses) and the bank accepts the court order. There are just too many cases of fraud involving paper. Waving a balance statement in front of a bank manager will get you nowhere.
izzydata 7y ago
I'm fine with the delivery of paper mail, but the idea of unsolicited paper mail is unacceptable. Nothing should ever be delivered to my house that I didn't agree to.
- jedberg 7y ago
  That unsolicited mail is what keeps it cheap though. Without that, a stamp would cost a few dollars each. Chances are all the people who send you paper that you do want would want to charge you for the privilege if it cost that much.
  - izzydata 7y ago
    That sounds terrible to me. I fully support the idea of paper mail costing a lot if it reduces the amount that is sent.
  - tathougies 7y ago
    One possibility is to simply attach an advertisement to each piece of mail sent. If you disclose what's inside (often done for insurance purposes), then they can even match it up to the best ad.
    - munk-a 7y ago
      Advertising is a form of waste in our society - we need to stop coming up with ways to excuse it and just work on eliminating it entirely.
      - tathougies 7y ago
        Meh. I love mail advertising. Get all my coupons in and pay less for the same stuff. That being said, thank you for paying full price, so I don't have to!
        munk-a 7y ago
        I don't pay full price in that scenario, I pay over full price. You end up paying full price. At any rate, I actually just avoid the supermarket near me that has a circular and go to the one that averages lower prices but without those "killer deals". I'm not doing poorly for myself so I'd be happy to subsidize people less well off (which ideally would all be consolidated into my taxes) but I think the cost in terms of time and paper goods couponing levies on society is simply not worth it.
bdamm 7y ago
Paper letters and artifacts that show up in my actual physical mailbox that someone had to put an actual stamp on to get delivered gets my attention in a way that email rarely does. All of my email accounts are a dumpster fire of spam. Gmail, private servers, work accounts via Office360, all of it is overflowing with trash. It is now common practice for someone to call or text after sending an email to make sure that people know to look for it. And one of the most important senders of mail is the government. Don't take that away or we'll have "The Sheriff is calling" scammers taking it to a whole new level. That's why we're still delivering paper. Because it costs more than email.
yellowapple 7y ago
USPS doesn't just deliver letters. Their parcel/box volume is on the same scale (if not greater) than the private carriers like UPS and FedEx (and in fact includes a considerable amount of UPS and FedEx volume via SurePost and SmartPost, respectively; these self-driving trucks probably won't be carrying much of that, since SurePost/SmartPost are only last-mile, and these trucks are the opposite of last-mile).
djhaskin987 7y ago
Odds are you're burning coal right now so that you can read this comment. It's so funny to me when people cite the environment when taking of paper. Paper requires no power to use, and is therefore miles better for the environment than your laptop is.
- exabrial 7y ago
  Actually, nuclear, wind, and natural gas where I live. :)

melling 7y ago

A duplicate of this story that is still on the front page of HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19969133 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19969133

woodandsteel 7y ago

Now all we need are robots that can write, send, and read snail mail, and we can eliminate human beings entirely.