5 ms·

I’m not saying it doesn’t exist, but I am claiming it’s uncommon to use closed source developer tools (compilers, interpreters, standard libraries, etc.). The m

I’m not saying it doesn’t exist, but I am claiming it’s uncommon to use closed source developer tools (compilers, interpreters, standard libraries, etc.). The mere fact that the most popular programming languages in the world are provided as open source implementations is a testament to that. There are some stragglers. I think K is closed source. Commercial implementations of APL are closed source but somewhat popular. “Source [partially] available” and “open source” are generally considered distinct concepts these days. See for instance [0] or even look up what Google’s dictionary says about the term. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Open_Source_Definition https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Open_Source_Definition

eps 7y ago
Nearly all professional Windows development has been and still is done in Visual Studio. This alone makes your "uncommon" claim void, and there are other examples outside of the Windows ecosystem equally well-rooted in proprietory tools.
- romantype 7y ago
  I have changed 7 jobs in 15 years so far and not once I have done Windows development in Visual Studio. Nor have I seen anyone in my company doing so. I would say Windows development in Visual Studio is by far uncommon when you compare with technologies like Python, C (with GCC or Clang), Java (OpenJDK), JavaScript, etc.
  - nikofeyn 7y ago
    c# is one of the most popular languages in the world. what are those people using?
    - reikonomusha 7y ago
      Roslyn? https://github.com/dotnet/roslyn https://github.com/dotnet/roslyn
  - new4thaccount 7y ago
    I work with a lot of C# devs using Visual Studio for some things and VSCode for others. I assume it is not uncommon in industry.
- phillipcarter 7y ago
  It's worth noting that the Visual Studio umbrella also involves many OSS technologies. If you're writing C# or F# code targeting .NET Core, the language, compilers, libraries, runtime, build tools, and parts of the IDE tooling are all open source.
- reikonomusha 7y ago
  Writing code in C or C++ does not lock me down in any way. Using the Windows OS APIs does, yes, but there are entirely robust ways of writing C++ on Windows using an open source toolchain that are popular. And as we have seen, Microsoft is increasingly going in a direction of open sourcing more and more of their tooling. Look at everything that has gone on with C#, F#, the .NET stack, etc. So while I agree with you that MSVC is used, and used often, I don’t think that’s a strong argument. Now if MS had their own language (they did...) that was closed source (it was...), the argument would be more akin to this Wolfram debate. But MS learned that wouldn’t fly, and adopted an OSS strategy.
  - eps 7y ago
    >>> I am claiming it’s uncommon to use closed source developer tools >> Visual studio > I don't think that's a strong argument Lovely talking to you.

eps 7y ago

Nearly all professional Windows development has been and still is done in Visual Studio. This alone makes your "uncommon" claim void, and there are other examples outside of the Windows ecosystem equally well-rooted in proprietory tools.

romantype 7y ago
I have changed 7 jobs in 15 years so far and not once I have done Windows development in Visual Studio. Nor have I seen anyone in my company doing so. I would say Windows development in Visual Studio is by far uncommon when you compare with technologies like Python, C (with GCC or Clang), Java (OpenJDK), JavaScript, etc.
- nikofeyn 7y ago
  c# is one of the most popular languages in the world. what are those people using?
  - reikonomusha 7y ago
    Roslyn? https://github.com/dotnet/roslyn https://github.com/dotnet/roslyn
- new4thaccount 7y ago
  I work with a lot of C# devs using Visual Studio for some things and VSCode for others. I assume it is not uncommon in industry.
phillipcarter 7y ago
It's worth noting that the Visual Studio umbrella also involves many OSS technologies. If you're writing C# or F# code targeting .NET Core, the language, compilers, libraries, runtime, build tools, and parts of the IDE tooling are all open source.
reikonomusha 7y ago
Writing code in C or C++ does not lock me down in any way. Using the Windows OS APIs does, yes, but there are entirely robust ways of writing C++ on Windows using an open source toolchain that are popular. And as we have seen, Microsoft is increasingly going in a direction of open sourcing more and more of their tooling. Look at everything that has gone on with C#, F#, the .NET stack, etc. So while I agree with you that MSVC is used, and used often, I don’t think that’s a strong argument. Now if MS had their own language (they did...) that was closed source (it was...), the argument would be more akin to this Wolfram debate. But MS learned that wouldn’t fly, and adopted an OSS strategy.
- eps 7y ago
  >>> I am claiming it’s uncommon to use closed source developer tools >> Visual studio > I don't think that's a strong argument Lovely talking to you.