9 ms·

We repair these as part of our business, and to be clear, both the keyboards and the screens are failing on these at an alarming rate. iFixit detailed the issu

We repair these as part of our business, and to be clear, both the keyboards and the screens are failing on these at an alarming rate. iFixit detailed the issues with the screens, which (in Apple's unending quest for "thinness") use a thinner flex cable to connect the display to the rest of the laptop. This thinner cable is prone to breakage, and we are already seeing 2016-2017 MacBook Pros in our shop regularly for this issue. Since Apple built the flex cable into the display, the only solution (even from third parties like us) is a new display. At $600-$700 each, this is unacceptable. And, like the keyboards, this is a part that's pretty much guaranteed to fail (unless you basically never open your laptop.) Apple hasn't announced a fix yet, even with a petition with over 11,000 signatures, and more screens failing by the day. From the time the keyboard issues happened, I made a strong recommendation to avoid buying these. If you can do your work on a PC, do so. (Personally, I now use a Dell XPS 15 as a "desktop replacement", and kept my old 2013 MacBook Pro around too.) If you need a Mac, consider a desktop version (with a SSD!), or stick with the 2015 or older MacBooks. Even if you think the keyboard issues are fixed, consider too that this is the 4th generation of these keyboards--and Apple promised that the 2nd and 3rd generation would fix these as well. This plus the screen issues means switching to PC if you need speed should be a serious consideration. iFixit article on "stage light" display issues/"flexgate": https://ifixit.org/blog/12903/flexgate/ https://ifixit.org/blog/12903/flexgate/

unicornfinder 7y ago
I would add to this that I genuinely don't think that the keyboard failures are due to dust - it seems far more likely to me that the switches are simply failing due to poor design.
- pathartl 7y ago
  Is the switches failing because of dust not poor mechanical design?
JohnJamesRambo 7y ago
Thank you so much for sharing this information.
Dunedan 7y ago
Have you come across a second issue with the screens as well, which causes them to develop moving yellow spots? (for examples see: https://gregsamborski.com/macbook-pro-led-screen-discoloration-spots-15-2017-touch-bar/ https://gregsamborski.com/macbook-pro-led-screen-discolorati...)
- tomduncalf 7y ago
  I had this issue. I assumed it was heat related, as the laptops can get real hot and sometimes I’m sure it doesn’t shut down properly when you close it - on mine the marks corresponded with the top bit of the keyboard, where it gets hottest. Brought it in under Apple care and it was replaced (along with the keyboard, rolls eyes) no questions.
artursapek 7y ago
Louis Rossman does a great job documenting Apple's stupid (greedy?) design decisions.
galad87 7y ago
They announced a screen repair program too: https://www.apple.com/support/13-inch-macbook-pro-display-backlight-service/ https://www.apple.com/support/13-inch-macbook-pro-display-ba...
- ksec 7y ago
  >Eligible models are listed below. MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2016, Four Thunderbolt 3 Ports) MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2016, Two Thunderbolt 3 Ports) >Note: No other Mac notebook models are part of this program. Sigh.
b3b0p 7y ago
Personally, I won't feel the keyboard issue is resolved until the keyboard is a user replaceable part.
Scarbutt 7y ago
The cheapest XPS 15" is more expensive than the cheapest MB 15". Are there any reliable ~$1000 laptops to host linux?
- jasonm89 7y ago
  T480
- navidfarhadi 7y ago
  Thinkpad T series and Dell Latitude 7390/7490 are good choices around that price.
- tpush 7y ago
  > The cheapest XPS 15" is more expensive than the cheapest MB 15". ... what? That's simply not true.
- ericabiz 7y ago
  I’m not sure where you’re looking, but the XPS 15 starts at $1000. Of course, you’re not going to want that hybrid drive. Dell also has an upcoming Memorial Day sale where they will discount certain models, and the new XPS 15 is due out next month. https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/xps-15/spd/xps-15-9570-laptop/configurations https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/xps-15/spd/xps-...
  - mailslot 7y ago
    I was going to say that the SSD is slower on the XPS, and it is, but it’s close. The storage in the MBP is wicked fast even in the base configuration.
    - Zephyreks 7y ago
      https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-Pro-15-2018-2-6-GHz-560X-Laptop-Review.317358.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-Pro-15-2018-2-6-... https://www.notebookcheck.net/Huawei-MateBook-13-i7-8565U-GeForce-MX150-Laptop-Review.395006.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Huawei-MateBook-13-i7-8565U-Ge... Samsung PM981s (and really Samsung SSDs in general) tend to trounce the competition, but IIRC the XPS 13 uses some mediocre SK Hynix SKU.
FunnyLookinHat 7y ago
Yeah the upgrade policy at my work kicked in and they tried to give me one of these... instead I got a Thinkpad X1 Extreme and put Linux on it. No regrets.
- jdhawk 7y ago
  PopOS? I've had fits, even w/ stock 19.04 on my X1E.
- twalla 7y ago
  I'm curious to hear about your experience with the X1 Extreme. My current employer has an equipment stipend that's the exact cost of a maxed out 15" macbook, I'd rather get the Thinkpad, a nice monitor and go to a conference.
welly 7y ago
Have one of the new 15" macbook pro with touch bar. My keyboard will never break simply because I never, ever use it. It's awful to type on, possibly the worst keyboard I've ever used. As is the track pad. I have a mouse plugged into it so I don't have to use the track pad. My MBP is basically a compact desktop machine and for that it is great. Fast and responsive.
- nsxwolf 7y ago
  Did something change regarding the trackpad? MacBook trackpads have always been at the top of the class, far better than any other manufacturer by leaps and bounds.
  - swiftcoder 7y ago
    It grew really, really big. So big that it's almost impossible to avoid while typing, and palm-rejection often can't cope with that.
  - welly 7y ago
    As swiftcoder says. It's massive, needlessly so in my opinion.
- favadi 7y ago
  Well, you don't need to use the keyboard extensively to break it. I used my MBP 2017 in the same manner as you, but still have to replace the keyboard twice.
ksec 7y ago
> If you need a Mac, consider a desktop version (with a SSD!) SSD is undoubtedly the single biggest system performance upgrade in the past 10 years. And we will soon past the halfway point of 2019, Apple is still selling an iMac with 1TB 5400 RPM HDD by default. Apart from AirPod and Apple Watch, there is nothing on the current Apple's product line I am satisfy with.
- ksec 7y ago
  Thanks for the downvote on what I thought was not even controversial. If we have to discuss whether "SSD is undoubtedly the single biggest system performance upgrade in the past 10 years." is correct then I think we can call it agree to disagree.
  - CamperBob2 7y ago
    Not much point in complaining about downvotes on here. There is a certain population of, well, professional contrarians on HN, and there's also the (deliberately?) poor design decision that places the upvote and downvote arrows a few pixels apart. Someone may have voted you down by mistake. Think empty boat[1], not U-boat. [1] https://www.thedailyzen.org/2015/05/27/the-empty-boat-by-chuang-tzu/ https://www.thedailyzen.org/2015/05/27/the-empty-boat-by-chu...
  - jmull 7y ago
    It could be one of the other sentiments you expressed. Personally, I think it makes no sense to complain that some large company is selling an option that you don't want.
JimDabell 7y ago
> this is the 4th generation of these keyboards--and Apple promised that the 2nd and 3rd generation would fix these as well. I don't think is true is it? I think this was just an assumption people made.
- Mindwipe 7y ago
  Leaked Apple service documents did say that the intent of the latest gen was to fix the reliability problems, so I don't think it's just an assumption.
  - JimDabell 7y ago
    A leaked internal document is a far cry from "Apple promised" though. If they wanted to make a public commitment, they would have done.
nodesocket 7y ago
> And, like the keyboards, this is a part that's pretty much guaranteed to fail (unless you basically never open your laptop.) Despite the constant outrage on HN, I have a 2018 15" MBP and have had zero issues with the keyboard breaking or screen failing.
sgt 7y ago
Dozens of our developers are using these for a couple of years now - no problems yet.
msvan 7y ago
I will agree and add a data point here. My 2017 MBP has had chronic keyboard issues, despite being in for repair twice and having had the entire top case replaced. Seriously disappointed in this computer considering the price I paid. I am planning my escape from this platform.
jjdjr0odo7 7y ago
Keep profits up by externalizing cost of ownership. If Apple is looking to be a totally integrated vertical, they would be wise to bring the fixit community into their stores and actually fix these things. The status quo of push people to replace increases costs for folks today and the mess of disposable high tech gadgets onto the next generations. Well, hopefully plural. But we seem keen to fuck that possibility right up while we fetishize our own feelings of unjustifiable entitlement.
karpodiem 7y ago
I love my Dell Latitude 5491 - six cores is more than enough for my work at the moment, and the NVMe drive absolutely screams. Much lighter than a workstation notebook, too.
jonaf 7y ago
Thanks, this makes me feel better about my decision a couple months ago to switch to Lenovo's ThinkPad P1 Mobile Workstation. I don't have any regrets switching from Apple hardware, and frankly Linux is so much more superior (especially when using i3[0]), I'm quite pleased with it. (The only complaint I have with the ThinkPad is the fan is super aggressive and very loud. It usually doesn't run for long, but it spins up with a whirring noise pretty often for 1-5 seconds before slowing down.) [0]: https://i3wm.org/ https://i3wm.org/
- alceta 7y ago
  Went exactly the same route a few weeks ago deciding between a new macbook pro or something else and went for the P1. Had some troubles with the UEFI due to outdated firmware (be sure to update that first thing) and other than that, I'm quite happy with the results. Battery life could be better, the fans are indeed more aggressive and I miss some of the touch gestures (swipe for browsing) that I didn't yet get to set up. My previous device was a late '14 MBP and that still works fine but is getting slow and quite hot.
  - jonaf 7y ago
    Yeah, I am a fan of Arch on the desktop, but the P1 runs Nvidia's P1000 chip and Arch doesn't seem to like that, so I went with Ubuntu+i3 for now. Updating the firmware first is definitely critical, as you could brick the machine otherwise. I'll echo my disappointment in battery life, although admittedly i3 and xfce defaults are probably not doing me any favors here...
- Zephyreks 7y ago
  You can configure that on windows using tpfancontrol. Should be similar on Linux. Tweak the fan curve to whatever the hell you want. You can even turn the fan higher than Lenovo lets it (but it might fuck your fan over... Oops)
FabHK 7y ago
> this is a part that's pretty much guaranteed to fail (unless you basically never open your laptop.) I have a 2016 MacBook "Pro", and every single part has been replaced (thanks, Apple Care) except the bottom plate. It seems to me they are not really designed to be moved, or used in an environment with, you know, particles and such. Plug it in once, put a transparent dome over it, look at it, and you'll be just fine.
- swozey 7y ago
  My 2016 is the first MBP where I've felt that. I have huge dents on it and it's in a Thule laptop bag if it's not on my desk. I'm not exactly gentle on my backpack but I never had to concern myself with my old 2015s (had a couple of these). I rarely use it outside of work, I take it home just for emergencies and it sits on my coat rack in the bag. And you know what I'd totally pay $3k for a full on desktop replacement that does what I do with it. Fatten it up, give it better thermals, removable batteries, make it MORE durable, etc. I remember using 12lb Dell laptops. We're past the point of diminishing returns on portability now.
  - swiftcoder 7y ago
    My work-issued 2017 has a visibly crushed corner of the display casing, from dropping my backpack on the floor. My personal 2013 has led a pretty rough life (including a couple of drops), and the sum total of damage over time is... one plastic foot missing.
    - swozey 7y ago
      I'm pretty sure mine has a gnarly corner gash (at the corner of the monitor) from tossing it onto my cars leather seat while its in its padded backpack.. sad.
vondur 7y ago
I’ve deployed over a dozen since 2016 without any issues.
techrich 7y ago
i am sticking to my 2017 macbook air. This is from a time when apple knew what they where doing, and it has a proper usb port. And the handy magnetic connector that saved my laptop more times than i care to mention. My next laptop prob wont be a mac.
sneak 7y ago
> We repair these as part of our business, and to be clear, both the keyboards and the screens are failing on these at an alarming rate. This model came out three hours ago, it looks like. How can you claim this? Are you making the assumption that they have made no changes whatsoever to the keyboard or hinge?
LeoPanthera 7y ago
> We repair these as part of our business I feel this comment is very misleading, since it looks like you are describing these new 8-core machines, which have been announced literally today and you cannot possibly have any experience of.
- bborud 7y ago
  Mm, sure, but you are making assumptions too.
- tracker1 7y ago
  Are these using differently designed screens and keyboards from other models from the past N generations?
pier25 7y ago
> If you need a Mac, consider a desktop version (with a SSD!), or stick with the 2015 or older MacBooks. This is what I did. I bought a 15'' 2015 model the day after the 2016 models were announced. I didn't even know about the keyboard problems, but the touchbar, the lack of ports, the price, and the shallow key travel were deal breakers for me. I used it for about a year but the integrated GPU and the 4th gen CPU ran too hot. At the time I lived in Cancún so quite hot, and the fan noise was becoming annoying even when doing skype calls and such. Also running it on my lap was uncomfortable. So at the start of 2018 I sold the MBP and got a 5K iMac with SSD since I really didn't need the portability anymore. Best Mac I've ever owned. I have an old 2014 13'' MBP laying around which I use in the rare occasions I'm away from my iMac.
- collinmanderson 7y ago
  Hah. My daily driver is a 2013 13" MBP. :) Works fine.
0xADEADBEE 7y ago
Not seeing anyone else mention this problem so perhaps I'm an edge case but I have a 3 month old Macbook Pro (work supplied, fortunately) and I'm getting double presses on certain keys. I've managed to ameliorate it a bit with software [0] but it's still a disgrace that this is happening on a $4K machine. [0] - https://unshaky.nestederror.com/ https://unshaky.nestederror.com/
- simongr3dal 7y ago
  I've had a 13" MBP with Touch Bar since December 2016 and have had keys that felt weird, keys that repeated, keys that didn't work unless you pressed really hard, and keys that didn't work no matter how hard you pressed them. I've had the top case replaced for free two times under warranty, and the extended 4-year warranty does make me slighty less worried. The battery is also replaced as part of the top case which is a pretty nice bonus. Though it is still a major inconvenience to be without my main computer for a week while it's being repaired.
- pfranz 7y ago
  Mine started after probably 8 months. I ignored it until it became work stopping (I decided against installing software to compensate) and had it replaced under warranty. Soon after getting it back I got a keyboard cover which seems to be doing its job. I hate accessories, and am really disappointed they released a new mbp in this same form-factor.
josephg 7y ago
They have announced a free fix for displays on 2016 models: https://www.apple.com/support/13-inch-macbook-pro-display-backlight-service/ https://www.apple.com/support/13-inch-macbook-pro-display-ba... And a free fix for keyboard issues on all butterfly keyboard laptops: https://www.apple.com/support/keyboard-service-program-for-mac-notebooks/ https://www.apple.com/support/keyboard-service-program-for-m... For now the display fix is only for 2016 displays; though I suspect with more bad press they’ll extend to 2017 and 2018 models too. I have a 2016 model which is starting to get the stage light problem. I wonder if it’s worth getting it fixed now or if I should wait until it gets worse before taking it in for servicing.
- AHTERIX5000 7y ago
  > And a free fix for keyboard issues on all butterfly keyboard laptops Don't know about the very latest one (assuming there is 4th gen) but so far this has been more like a workaround that breaks down again at some point since the design is not solid. Getting an inherently flawed replacement for free isn't worth celebrating IMHO especially considering how expensive these things are.
chrischen 7y ago
I've had issues with macbook pro keyboards for every model since the 2016 one, but I've never had an issue with Apple not doing an in-warranty repair. In fact, usually they swap out the battery for me during these repairs too. Contrast this with every other PC manufacturer where they require me to ship the item to them, wait for weeks. Apple gives it back to me within a couple of days.
- detaro 7y ago
  A Lenovo (or Dell, and maybe also HP, haven't looked at their offerings recently) laptop in the price class of a Macbook Pro typically comes with on-site warranty support (and for cheaper business models it's typically an affordable upgrade), or you can bring or ship it to a local service partner and have them fix it and deal with the warranty claim.
  - Foobar8568 7y ago
    My first and only buy has a serious quality factory issue: two keys not working, screw under a third one, and God knows what within the laptop. The shop I bought redirected me to Lenovo website for the exchange, three numbers later (two weren't working at all) I am waiting for a document from Lenovo then I can go back to the shop for the exchange. It might take 5 days or one month. I am a bit unhappy. At least the warranty is cheap (yeah?)
megaremote 7y ago
Apple has already released a fix for the screen issue, with a longer cable less likely to break. This was months ago. They have also never said that 2 and 3 keyboard were fixes for the keyboard issue. I am surprised someone in the business can be so far behind the news.

unicornfinder 7y ago

I would add to this that I genuinely don't think that the keyboard failures are due to dust - it seems far more likely to me that the switches are simply failing due to poor design.

pathartl 7y ago
Is the switches failing because of dust not poor mechanical design?

JohnJamesRambo 7y ago

Thank you so much for sharing this information.

Dunedan 7y ago

Have you come across a second issue with the screens as well, which causes them to develop moving yellow spots? (for examples see: https://gregsamborski.com/macbook-pro-led-screen-discoloration-spots-15-2017-touch-bar/ https://gregsamborski.com/macbook-pro-led-screen-discolorati...)

tomduncalf 7y ago
I had this issue. I assumed it was heat related, as the laptops can get real hot and sometimes I’m sure it doesn’t shut down properly when you close it - on mine the marks corresponded with the top bit of the keyboard, where it gets hottest. Brought it in under Apple care and it was replaced (along with the keyboard, rolls eyes) no questions.

artursapek 7y ago

Louis Rossman does a great job documenting Apple's stupid (greedy?) design decisions.

galad87 7y ago

They announced a screen repair program too: https://www.apple.com/support/13-inch-macbook-pro-display-backlight-service/ https://www.apple.com/support/13-inch-macbook-pro-display-ba...

ksec 7y ago
>Eligible models are listed below. MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2016, Four Thunderbolt 3 Ports) MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2016, Two Thunderbolt 3 Ports) >Note: No other Mac notebook models are part of this program. Sigh.

b3b0p 7y ago

Personally, I won't feel the keyboard issue is resolved until the keyboard is a user replaceable part.

Scarbutt 7y ago

The cheapest XPS 15" is more expensive than the cheapest MB 15". Are there any reliable ~$1000 laptops to host linux?

jasonm89 7y ago
T480
navidfarhadi 7y ago
Thinkpad T series and Dell Latitude 7390/7490 are good choices around that price.
tpush 7y ago
> The cheapest XPS 15" is more expensive than the cheapest MB 15". ... what? That's simply not true.
ericabiz 7y ago
I’m not sure where you’re looking, but the XPS 15 starts at $1000. Of course, you’re not going to want that hybrid drive. Dell also has an upcoming Memorial Day sale where they will discount certain models, and the new XPS 15 is due out next month. https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/xps-15/spd/xps-15-9570-laptop/configurations https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/xps-15/spd/xps-...
- mailslot 7y ago
  I was going to say that the SSD is slower on the XPS, and it is, but it’s close. The storage in the MBP is wicked fast even in the base configuration.
  - Zephyreks 7y ago
    https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-Pro-15-2018-2-6-GHz-560X-Laptop-Review.317358.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-Pro-15-2018-2-6-... https://www.notebookcheck.net/Huawei-MateBook-13-i7-8565U-GeForce-MX150-Laptop-Review.395006.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Huawei-MateBook-13-i7-8565U-Ge... Samsung PM981s (and really Samsung SSDs in general) tend to trounce the competition, but IIRC the XPS 13 uses some mediocre SK Hynix SKU.

FunnyLookinHat 7y ago

Yeah the upgrade policy at my work kicked in and they tried to give me one of these... instead I got a Thinkpad X1 Extreme and put Linux on it. No regrets.

jdhawk 7y ago
PopOS? I've had fits, even w/ stock 19.04 on my X1E.
twalla 7y ago
I'm curious to hear about your experience with the X1 Extreme. My current employer has an equipment stipend that's the exact cost of a maxed out 15" macbook, I'd rather get the Thinkpad, a nice monitor and go to a conference.

welly 7y ago

Have one of the new 15" macbook pro with touch bar. My keyboard will never break simply because I never, ever use it. It's awful to type on, possibly the worst keyboard I've ever used. As is the track pad. I have a mouse plugged into it so I don't have to use the track pad. My MBP is basically a compact desktop machine and for that it is great. Fast and responsive.

nsxwolf 7y ago
Did something change regarding the trackpad? MacBook trackpads have always been at the top of the class, far better than any other manufacturer by leaps and bounds.
- swiftcoder 7y ago
  It grew really, really big. So big that it's almost impossible to avoid while typing, and palm-rejection often can't cope with that.
- welly 7y ago
  As swiftcoder says. It's massive, needlessly so in my opinion.
favadi 7y ago
Well, you don't need to use the keyboard extensively to break it. I used my MBP 2017 in the same manner as you, but still have to replace the keyboard twice.

ksec 7y ago

> If you need a Mac, consider a desktop version (with a SSD!) SSD is undoubtedly the single biggest system performance upgrade in the past 10 years. And we will soon past the halfway point of 2019, Apple is still selling an iMac with 1TB 5400 RPM HDD by default. Apart from AirPod and Apple Watch, there is nothing on the current Apple's product line I am satisfy with.

ksec 7y ago
Thanks for the downvote on what I thought was not even controversial. If we have to discuss whether "SSD is undoubtedly the single biggest system performance upgrade in the past 10 years." is correct then I think we can call it agree to disagree.
- CamperBob2 7y ago
  Not much point in complaining about downvotes on here. There is a certain population of, well, professional contrarians on HN, and there's also the (deliberately?) poor design decision that places the upvote and downvote arrows a few pixels apart. Someone may have voted you down by mistake. Think empty boat[1], not U-boat. [1] https://www.thedailyzen.org/2015/05/27/the-empty-boat-by-chuang-tzu/ https://www.thedailyzen.org/2015/05/27/the-empty-boat-by-chu...
- jmull 7y ago
  It could be one of the other sentiments you expressed. Personally, I think it makes no sense to complain that some large company is selling an option that you don't want.

JimDabell 7y ago

> this is the 4th generation of these keyboards--and Apple promised that the 2nd and 3rd generation would fix these as well. I don't think is true is it? I think this was just an assumption people made.

Mindwipe 7y ago
Leaked Apple service documents did say that the intent of the latest gen was to fix the reliability problems, so I don't think it's just an assumption.
- JimDabell 7y ago
  A leaked internal document is a far cry from "Apple promised" though. If they wanted to make a public commitment, they would have done.

nodesocket 7y ago

> And, like the keyboards, this is a part that's pretty much guaranteed to fail (unless you basically never open your laptop.) Despite the constant outrage on HN, I have a 2018 15" MBP and have had zero issues with the keyboard breaking or screen failing.

sgt 7y ago

Dozens of our developers are using these for a couple of years now - no problems yet.

msvan 7y ago

I will agree and add a data point here. My 2017 MBP has had chronic keyboard issues, despite being in for repair twice and having had the entire top case replaced. Seriously disappointed in this computer considering the price I paid. I am planning my escape from this platform.

jjdjr0odo7 7y ago

Keep profits up by externalizing cost of ownership. If Apple is looking to be a totally integrated vertical, they would be wise to bring the fixit community into their stores and actually fix these things. The status quo of push people to replace increases costs for folks today and the mess of disposable high tech gadgets onto the next generations. Well, hopefully plural. But we seem keen to fuck that possibility right up while we fetishize our own feelings of unjustifiable entitlement.

karpodiem 7y ago

I love my Dell Latitude 5491 - six cores is more than enough for my work at the moment, and the NVMe drive absolutely screams. Much lighter than a workstation notebook, too.

jonaf 7y ago

Thanks, this makes me feel better about my decision a couple months ago to switch to Lenovo's ThinkPad P1 Mobile Workstation. I don't have any regrets switching from Apple hardware, and frankly Linux is so much more superior (especially when using i3[0]), I'm quite pleased with it. (The only complaint I have with the ThinkPad is the fan is super aggressive and very loud. It usually doesn't run for long, but it spins up with a whirring noise pretty often for 1-5 seconds before slowing down.) [0]: https://i3wm.org/ https://i3wm.org/

alceta 7y ago
Went exactly the same route a few weeks ago deciding between a new macbook pro or something else and went for the P1. Had some troubles with the UEFI due to outdated firmware (be sure to update that first thing) and other than that, I'm quite happy with the results. Battery life could be better, the fans are indeed more aggressive and I miss some of the touch gestures (swipe for browsing) that I didn't yet get to set up. My previous device was a late '14 MBP and that still works fine but is getting slow and quite hot.
- jonaf 7y ago
  Yeah, I am a fan of Arch on the desktop, but the P1 runs Nvidia's P1000 chip and Arch doesn't seem to like that, so I went with Ubuntu+i3 for now. Updating the firmware first is definitely critical, as you could brick the machine otherwise. I'll echo my disappointment in battery life, although admittedly i3 and xfce defaults are probably not doing me any favors here...
Zephyreks 7y ago
You can configure that on windows using tpfancontrol. Should be similar on Linux. Tweak the fan curve to whatever the hell you want. You can even turn the fan higher than Lenovo lets it (but it might fuck your fan over... Oops)

FabHK 7y ago

> this is a part that's pretty much guaranteed to fail (unless you basically never open your laptop.) I have a 2016 MacBook "Pro", and every single part has been replaced (thanks, Apple Care) except the bottom plate. It seems to me they are not really designed to be moved, or used in an environment with, you know, particles and such. Plug it in once, put a transparent dome over it, look at it, and you'll be just fine.

swozey 7y ago
My 2016 is the first MBP where I've felt that. I have huge dents on it and it's in a Thule laptop bag if it's not on my desk. I'm not exactly gentle on my backpack but I never had to concern myself with my old 2015s (had a couple of these). I rarely use it outside of work, I take it home just for emergencies and it sits on my coat rack in the bag. And you know what I'd totally pay $3k for a full on desktop replacement that does what I do with it. Fatten it up, give it better thermals, removable batteries, make it MORE durable, etc. I remember using 12lb Dell laptops. We're past the point of diminishing returns on portability now.
- swiftcoder 7y ago
  My work-issued 2017 has a visibly crushed corner of the display casing, from dropping my backpack on the floor. My personal 2013 has led a pretty rough life (including a couple of drops), and the sum total of damage over time is... one plastic foot missing.
  - swozey 7y ago
    I'm pretty sure mine has a gnarly corner gash (at the corner of the monitor) from tossing it onto my cars leather seat while its in its padded backpack.. sad.

vondur 7y ago

I’ve deployed over a dozen since 2016 without any issues.

techrich 7y ago

i am sticking to my 2017 macbook air. This is from a time when apple knew what they where doing, and it has a proper usb port. And the handy magnetic connector that saved my laptop more times than i care to mention. My next laptop prob wont be a mac.

sneak 7y ago

> We repair these as part of our business, and to be clear, both the keyboards and the screens are failing on these at an alarming rate. This model came out three hours ago, it looks like. How can you claim this? Are you making the assumption that they have made no changes whatsoever to the keyboard or hinge?

LeoPanthera 7y ago

> We repair these as part of our business I feel this comment is very misleading, since it looks like you are describing these new 8-core machines, which have been announced literally today and you cannot possibly have any experience of.

bborud 7y ago
Mm, sure, but you are making assumptions too.
tracker1 7y ago
Are these using differently designed screens and keyboards from other models from the past N generations?

pier25 7y ago

> If you need a Mac, consider a desktop version (with a SSD!), or stick with the 2015 or older MacBooks. This is what I did. I bought a 15'' 2015 model the day after the 2016 models were announced. I didn't even know about the keyboard problems, but the touchbar, the lack of ports, the price, and the shallow key travel were deal breakers for me. I used it for about a year but the integrated GPU and the 4th gen CPU ran too hot. At the time I lived in Cancún so quite hot, and the fan noise was becoming annoying even when doing skype calls and such. Also running it on my lap was uncomfortable. So at the start of 2018 I sold the MBP and got a 5K iMac with SSD since I really didn't need the portability anymore. Best Mac I've ever owned. I have an old 2014 13'' MBP laying around which I use in the rare occasions I'm away from my iMac.

collinmanderson 7y ago
Hah. My daily driver is a 2013 13" MBP. :) Works fine.

0xADEADBEE 7y ago

Not seeing anyone else mention this problem so perhaps I'm an edge case but I have a 3 month old Macbook Pro (work supplied, fortunately) and I'm getting double presses on certain keys. I've managed to ameliorate it a bit with software [0] but it's still a disgrace that this is happening on a $4K machine. [0] - https://unshaky.nestederror.com/ https://unshaky.nestederror.com/

simongr3dal 7y ago
I've had a 13" MBP with Touch Bar since December 2016 and have had keys that felt weird, keys that repeated, keys that didn't work unless you pressed really hard, and keys that didn't work no matter how hard you pressed them. I've had the top case replaced for free two times under warranty, and the extended 4-year warranty does make me slighty less worried. The battery is also replaced as part of the top case which is a pretty nice bonus. Though it is still a major inconvenience to be without my main computer for a week while it's being repaired.
pfranz 7y ago
Mine started after probably 8 months. I ignored it until it became work stopping (I decided against installing software to compensate) and had it replaced under warranty. Soon after getting it back I got a keyboard cover which seems to be doing its job. I hate accessories, and am really disappointed they released a new mbp in this same form-factor.

josephg 7y ago

They have announced a free fix for displays on 2016 models: https://www.apple.com/support/13-inch-macbook-pro-display-backlight-service/ https://www.apple.com/support/13-inch-macbook-pro-display-ba... And a free fix for keyboard issues on all butterfly keyboard laptops: https://www.apple.com/support/keyboard-service-program-for-mac-notebooks/ https://www.apple.com/support/keyboard-service-program-for-m... For now the display fix is only for 2016 displays; though I suspect with more bad press they’ll extend to 2017 and 2018 models too. I have a 2016 model which is starting to get the stage light problem. I wonder if it’s worth getting it fixed now or if I should wait until it gets worse before taking it in for servicing.

AHTERIX5000 7y ago
> And a free fix for keyboard issues on all butterfly keyboard laptops Don't know about the very latest one (assuming there is 4th gen) but so far this has been more like a workaround that breaks down again at some point since the design is not solid. Getting an inherently flawed replacement for free isn't worth celebrating IMHO especially considering how expensive these things are.

chrischen 7y ago

I've had issues with macbook pro keyboards for every model since the 2016 one, but I've never had an issue with Apple not doing an in-warranty repair. In fact, usually they swap out the battery for me during these repairs too. Contrast this with every other PC manufacturer where they require me to ship the item to them, wait for weeks. Apple gives it back to me within a couple of days.

detaro 7y ago
A Lenovo (or Dell, and maybe also HP, haven't looked at their offerings recently) laptop in the price class of a Macbook Pro typically comes with on-site warranty support (and for cheaper business models it's typically an affordable upgrade), or you can bring or ship it to a local service partner and have them fix it and deal with the warranty claim.
- Foobar8568 7y ago
  My first and only buy has a serious quality factory issue: two keys not working, screw under a third one, and God knows what within the laptop. The shop I bought redirected me to Lenovo website for the exchange, three numbers later (two weren't working at all) I am waiting for a document from Lenovo then I can go back to the shop for the exchange. It might take 5 days or one month. I am a bit unhappy. At least the warranty is cheap (yeah?)

megaremote 7y ago

Apple has already released a fix for the screen issue, with a longer cable less likely to break. This was months ago. They have also never said that 2 and 3 keyboard were fixes for the keyboard issue. I am surprised someone in the business can be so far behind the news.