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It is a symbiotic relationship :) I do not think just because you are involved in creating data that means it is yours. When you give data to the census that i

by bwb 7y ago

It is a symbiotic relationship :) I do not think just because you are involved in creating data that means it is yours. When you give data to the census that isn't your data... when you click an ad and buy something that data isn't your data... I just don't get this notion that data is yours because you are involved in its creation. There is data about you that might be private or personal and should have protections, but the notion that data you have a role in creating is yours seems extreme.

inetknght 7y ago
> It is a symbiotic relationship :) What you are saying is that users don't have a choice in the matter.
- judge2020 7y ago
  The choice is "you can choose not to form that relationship [with that vehicle]" (choose not to drive, or purchase a "dumb" car that still has a backup camera and blind spot monitor)
  - inetknght 7y ago
    > or purchase a "dumb" car that still has a backup camera and blind spot monitor I think this choice will be removed within my lifetime.
danso 7y ago
So the Census is enshrined in the Constitution, ostensibly because it would be impossible (pragmatically speaking) to facilitate a representative democracy without an accurate population count. I don’t think it’s productive to go off on a tangent about the legitimacy of the U.S. Constitution, unless you actually believe that corporations should be afforded the same role and mandate as the federal govt (in which case, hoo boy, I have no interest in following the rabbit hole of your thinking. “It’s a symbiotic relationship” Sorry, you’ll have to do a bit better than that. Many of us are old enough to have owned and driven vehicles quite well with no automated telemetry. The same can’t be said for account-based online social networks, which have always required user data to fundamentally function.
JohnFen 7y ago
> the notion that data you have a role in creating is yours seems extreme. The notion that it's OK for me to be forced to send such data to others seems extreme to me.
- bwb 7y ago
  Like I said, you are not being forced, it isn't your data to start with is a different POV to approach this from. You are stuck in the mindset that because you are somehow related to the data you get ownership.
  - JohnFen 7y ago
    > Like I said, you are not being forced I don't know why you say this, though, when you are arguing that I should be. > because you are somehow related to the data you get ownership. In the absence of a compelling reason otherwise, I demand such ownership.
    - bwb 7y ago
      I just don't get why you think that data is yours. I don't see that data as anyway owned by you, you might have rights to aspects of it, but in no way can you demand ownership over something you don't own.
      - JohnFen 7y ago
        > I just don't get why you think that data is yours. Because it is data about me that I'm generating personally, on my own personal equipment. That data is literally nobody else's business unless I choose to share it.
  - lutorm 7y ago
    How about the POV that if I buy the device, I decide what the device does? This is a fundamental property right. You may argue that the data created isn't "mine", but I would argue that it is absolutely my data if it is created by a device I own. The fact that someone else manufactured the device doesn't give them some sort of retained ownership once they sell it to me.

by bwb 7y ago

inetknght 7y ago

> It is a symbiotic relationship :) What you are saying is that users don't have a choice in the matter.

judge2020 7y ago
The choice is "you can choose not to form that relationship [with that vehicle]" (choose not to drive, or purchase a "dumb" car that still has a backup camera and blind spot monitor)
- inetknght 7y ago
  > or purchase a "dumb" car that still has a backup camera and blind spot monitor I think this choice will be removed within my lifetime.

danso 7y ago

So the Census is enshrined in the Constitution, ostensibly because it would be impossible (pragmatically speaking) to facilitate a representative democracy without an accurate population count. I don’t think it’s productive to go off on a tangent about the legitimacy of the U.S. Constitution, unless you actually believe that corporations should be afforded the same role and mandate as the federal govt (in which case, hoo boy, I have no interest in following the rabbit hole of your thinking. “It’s a symbiotic relationship” Sorry, you’ll have to do a bit better than that. Many of us are old enough to have owned and driven vehicles quite well with no automated telemetry. The same can’t be said for account-based online social networks, which have always required user data to fundamentally function.

JohnFen 7y ago

> the notion that data you have a role in creating is yours seems extreme. The notion that it's OK for me to be forced to send such data to others seems extreme to me.

bwb 7y ago
Like I said, you are not being forced, it isn't your data to start with is a different POV to approach this from. You are stuck in the mindset that because you are somehow related to the data you get ownership.
- JohnFen 7y ago
  > Like I said, you are not being forced I don't know why you say this, though, when you are arguing that I should be. > because you are somehow related to the data you get ownership. In the absence of a compelling reason otherwise, I demand such ownership.
  - bwb 7y ago
    I just don't get why you think that data is yours. I don't see that data as anyway owned by you, you might have rights to aspects of it, but in no way can you demand ownership over something you don't own.
    - JohnFen 7y ago
      > I just don't get why you think that data is yours. Because it is data about me that I'm generating personally, on my own personal equipment. That data is literally nobody else's business unless I choose to share it.
- lutorm 7y ago
  How about the POV that if I buy the device, I decide what the device does? This is a fundamental property right. You may argue that the data created isn't "mine", but I would argue that it is absolutely my data if it is created by a device I own. The fact that someone else manufactured the device doesn't give them some sort of retained ownership once they sell it to me.