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I'm all for retaining ownership of your Spotify playlists, Bluetooth synced contact list and location data. But given the number of vehicular deaths, I'm all f

I'm all for retaining ownership of your Spotify playlists, Bluetooth synced contact list and location data. But given the number of vehicular deaths, I'm all for having authorities access blackbox-style data like pedal state, acceleration vectors etc. that some controllers already keep around. If you are operating a 100 kW machine in public, how you do it isn't a privacy concern.

shatteredvisage 7y ago
Yes it is, or did you go ahead and install that blackbox geico has been trying to sell you?
jchrisa 7y ago
Agree. Any activity that is so hostile to other people should be monitored aggressively, and privileges revoked for the slightest reason. By the same token, you should need to file an individual route permit anytime you want to exceed 20 mph in a multi-ton vehicle. The externalized social costs of designating ~25% of our cities' surface area to violent human exclusion zones is hard to overstate. For one example, it's become rare for children to walk (to school or anywhere.) How much is that worth?
- rootusrootus 7y ago
  My children walk all the time, including to/from school every day. And there are plenty of their friends on the sidewalk with them. It's also difficult to overstate how much value universal transportation has brought to the human race. Maybe more than enough to justify the surface area dedicated to it.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
tastroder 7y ago
On the contrary, the how you do it includes where and when you do it, which is a major privacy concern. Sure, a black box to get telemetry after the fact might make sense, with specificity and my explicit knowledge when access happens. I'd have a hard time turning that into free data for any particular company or government to have though, vehicular deaths aren't the only issue in our world.
- wool_gather 7y ago
  Very good point. Although, in the case of an accident, isn't your location already a matter of public record?
  - francisofascii 7y ago
    The location of the crash is public. Who was involved is not. AFAIK You can download the locations of fatality crashes here. ftp://ftp.nhtsa.dot.gov/fars/
  - judge2020 7y ago
    Not really/depends. Florida has the Public Records Act (which is why we have "Florida man" and "Florida woman" headlines) so there the police's crash report is public, but if your car hits another car on a backroad in any other state, more often than not only the two drivers, their insurance, and the police know about the event.
    - JohnFen 7y ago
      The last accident I got in (a fender-bender) was about 10 years ago -- and only myself and the other driver knew about it. No insurance companies or police were ever told.
  - tastroder 7y ago
    Wouldn't think so, although I live in Germany so YMMV on that question. Around here there would be a public record of an accidents location if it was big enough to bother waiting for the police, although the public portion of that would not be tied to my name or license plate. Announcements (by authorities) on larger accidents mostly contain maybe an age, gender, and generic vehicle information. Other than that only the two insurances involved would get more data. The only thing I could think of that made more information public might be lawsuits that could occasionally result from an accident but I'm not sure on how public those currently are. Our news around here usually refrain from naming people in reporting anyway if it's not too relevant or it's a public person anyway.
  - 7y ago
dsfyu404ed 7y ago
>I'm all for retaining ownership of your Spotify playlists, Bluetooth synced contact list and location data. >But given the number of vehicular deaths... Ah the good 'ol "my principals go out the window when $emotionally_loaded_topic is involved." Nobody, not the insurance company, the DMV, nor the people debugging the software in prod deserves access to ones data without express and informed (i.e. not a million word eula nobody reads) consent. It's no different than data generated by a cell phone or smart blender Anyone worried about safety can find an external way to monitor that.
- lmkg 7y ago
  Death is just an "emotionally loaded topic"? I think it's perfectly reasonable to have principles, but value those principles less than human life. In fact, I wish more people did that. There are plenty of cases where we can and do make exceptions to personal privacy for public benefit, under certain guidelines. E.g. medical data is one of the few things that's actually private by law in the US, but we still find way to make aggregate data available for epidemiological studies. Location data is absolutely sensitive data, but there are valid reasons to make subsets of it available for the public benefit.
rootusrootus 7y ago
Authorities already have legal methods for accessing data that you otherwise own. That seems sufficient. Corporations, on the other hand, have no such need.
davemp 7y ago
> If you are operating a 100 kW machine in public, how you do it isn't a privacy concern. I'd be more likely to agree if traffic laws weren't already such an arbitrary garbage fire of selective enforcement. Though assuming this data was not networked and belonged to the individual (can still be used as evidence is court), a black-box is probably a good idea.
jimktrains2 7y ago
> But given the number of vehicular deaths Or we could spend a small fraction of the war on drugs on more traffic cops and save many more lives than the war on drugs has. Driving is extremely dangerous, and there is a significant number of people out there making it even more so by tailgating, suicide lane switches, and excessive speeding for the road conditions.
- rootusrootus 7y ago
  With an average of one death per 100,000,000 miles traveled, I don't know if I'd rate driving as extremely dangerous. Otherwise, I kinda agree. Eliminate drunk driving and make it so everyone is wearing a seatbelt, and the fatality rate would drop by half.
  - jimktrains2 7y ago
    It's not just deaths, but injuries and property damage. Yes, driving has gotten much, much safer over the past few decades, but it's still the most dangerous thing we do on a daily basis.

shatteredvisage 7y ago

Yes it is, or did you go ahead and install that blackbox geico has been trying to sell you?

jchrisa 7y ago

Agree. Any activity that is so hostile to other people should be monitored aggressively, and privileges revoked for the slightest reason. By the same token, you should need to file an individual route permit anytime you want to exceed 20 mph in a multi-ton vehicle. The externalized social costs of designating ~25% of our cities' surface area to violent human exclusion zones is hard to overstate. For one example, it's become rare for children to walk (to school or anywhere.) How much is that worth?

rootusrootus 7y ago
My children walk all the time, including to/from school every day. And there are plenty of their friends on the sidewalk with them. It's also difficult to overstate how much value universal transportation has brought to the human race. Maybe more than enough to justify the surface area dedicated to it.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

tastroder 7y ago

On the contrary, the how you do it includes where and when you do it, which is a major privacy concern. Sure, a black box to get telemetry after the fact might make sense, with specificity and my explicit knowledge when access happens. I'd have a hard time turning that into free data for any particular company or government to have though, vehicular deaths aren't the only issue in our world.

wool_gather 7y ago
Very good point. Although, in the case of an accident, isn't your location already a matter of public record?
- francisofascii 7y ago
  The location of the crash is public. Who was involved is not. AFAIK You can download the locations of fatality crashes here. ftp://ftp.nhtsa.dot.gov/fars/
- judge2020 7y ago
  Not really/depends. Florida has the Public Records Act (which is why we have "Florida man" and "Florida woman" headlines) so there the police's crash report is public, but if your car hits another car on a backroad in any other state, more often than not only the two drivers, their insurance, and the police know about the event.
  - JohnFen 7y ago
    The last accident I got in (a fender-bender) was about 10 years ago -- and only myself and the other driver knew about it. No insurance companies or police were ever told.
- tastroder 7y ago
  Wouldn't think so, although I live in Germany so YMMV on that question. Around here there would be a public record of an accidents location if it was big enough to bother waiting for the police, although the public portion of that would not be tied to my name or license plate. Announcements (by authorities) on larger accidents mostly contain maybe an age, gender, and generic vehicle information. Other than that only the two insurances involved would get more data. The only thing I could think of that made more information public might be lawsuits that could occasionally result from an accident but I'm not sure on how public those currently are. Our news around here usually refrain from naming people in reporting anyway if it's not too relevant or it's a public person anyway.
- 7y ago

dsfyu404ed 7y ago

>I'm all for retaining ownership of your Spotify playlists, Bluetooth synced contact list and location data. >But given the number of vehicular deaths... Ah the good 'ol "my principals go out the window when $emotionally_loaded_topic is involved." Nobody, not the insurance company, the DMV, nor the people debugging the software in prod deserves access to ones data without express and informed (i.e. not a million word eula nobody reads) consent. It's no different than data generated by a cell phone or smart blender Anyone worried about safety can find an external way to monitor that.

lmkg 7y ago
Death is just an "emotionally loaded topic"? I think it's perfectly reasonable to have principles, but value those principles less than human life. In fact, I wish more people did that. There are plenty of cases where we can and do make exceptions to personal privacy for public benefit, under certain guidelines. E.g. medical data is one of the few things that's actually private by law in the US, but we still find way to make aggregate data available for epidemiological studies. Location data is absolutely sensitive data, but there are valid reasons to make subsets of it available for the public benefit.

rootusrootus 7y ago

Authorities already have legal methods for accessing data that you otherwise own. That seems sufficient. Corporations, on the other hand, have no such need.

davemp 7y ago

> If you are operating a 100 kW machine in public, how you do it isn't a privacy concern. I'd be more likely to agree if traffic laws weren't already such an arbitrary garbage fire of selective enforcement. Though assuming this data was not networked and belonged to the individual (can still be used as evidence is court), a black-box is probably a good idea.

jimktrains2 7y ago

> But given the number of vehicular deaths Or we could spend a small fraction of the war on drugs on more traffic cops and save many more lives than the war on drugs has. Driving is extremely dangerous, and there is a significant number of people out there making it even more so by tailgating, suicide lane switches, and excessive speeding for the road conditions.

rootusrootus 7y ago
With an average of one death per 100,000,000 miles traveled, I don't know if I'd rate driving as extremely dangerous. Otherwise, I kinda agree. Eliminate drunk driving and make it so everyone is wearing a seatbelt, and the fatality rate would drop by half.
- jimktrains2 7y ago
  It's not just deaths, but injuries and property damage. Yes, driving has gotten much, much safer over the past few decades, but it's still the most dangerous thing we do on a daily basis.