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What if the data revealed your predilection for visiting strip clubs? Would you want to have control over that information? At least with Google maps you contro

What if the data revealed your predilection for visiting strip clubs? Would you want to have control over that information? At least with Google maps you control when it is on - and there is a privacy policy of some sort.

bwb 7y ago
#1 - On your specific example... what is wrong with visiting strip clubs? Is that not someone's prerogative and legally allowed by society? Why should we be ashamed of that? #2 - I am not saying "no privacy", I want smart privacy :). It is a spectrum, not a binary choice. If that data is combined together so that the city knows traffic on road 1 is high and they need to invest in infrastructure there that is great. Or if the data from that trip is used to improve car safety or automated driving systems on that road, great! Should that data be able to be pulled to let the place you work check the morality clause in your contract? Hell no.
- sokoloff 7y ago
  Attending AA meetings, being treated for an STD or at a cancer center, and consistently leaving a bar at closing time are all perfectly legal, yet something people may wish to be able to exercise significant privacy over.
  - bwb 7y ago
    Agreed, but that also doesn't mean the data can't be used when stripped of identifiers to improve the product and society. I don't want cell phone companies selling my specific location, but I also don't want them to not get data from my phone to improve their services where there are drop outs or other issues.
    - danso 7y ago
      You started this thread from the position that the data-logging device (and its manufacturer) is ultimately the data’s owner. So please justify to the folks in the “extreme privacy movement” why you think the data-owning companies should have any obligation to follow your various preferences for how your data cannot be used.
      - bwb 7y ago
        No, I started this thread by saying that data is not always owned purely by the person playing a role in its creation. I am tired of the extreme movement that all data I have a role in creating is mine, and I should have full control of it. I am worried about the ramifications on society and our ability to improve products and the way society/civilization works. I think Europe has taken some good steps toward that goal, but like any first try, it also has some stupid parts. Time and debate will improve it. I'd like to see us start crafting legislation that tries to find that middle ground between the data that should be private and the data that can be used to improve the product and society and thus make sure it is available.
    - sokoloff 7y ago
      Our history of completely anonymizing data is not good. "We have no idea which anonymous car it is that consistently drives between bwb's house, bwb's work, unsavory place X, unsavory place Y, and back to bwb's house everyday".
      - bwb 7y ago
        Agreed, like I said we need strong regulation and enforcement, but that doesn't mean we throw everything out because it is hard to do. It means we need to have the conversation about it and try to craft regulation/enforcement that supports society and doesn't take advantage of it.
    - rootusrootus 7y ago
      We have seen repeatedly that anonymizing data effectively is actually quite a lot more difficult than it seems. I'd much rather that we whitelist the data we think is worth collecting and analyzing for product improvement, instead of trying to blacklist the things we prefer are kept private.
      - bwb 7y ago
        Agreed, I am not saying I have the answer, but what I don't want is this movement happening in Europe and budding here that all data is MINE, and can't serve society/product improvements. I think that def might be a better approach.
- cheerlessbog 7y ago
  > what is wrong with visiting strip clubs I don't have a problem with it but we can agree that some people do, right?

bwb 7y ago

#1 - On your specific example... what is wrong with visiting strip clubs? Is that not someone's prerogative and legally allowed by society? Why should we be ashamed of that? #2 - I am not saying "no privacy", I want smart privacy :). It is a spectrum, not a binary choice. If that data is combined together so that the city knows traffic on road 1 is high and they need to invest in infrastructure there that is great. Or if the data from that trip is used to improve car safety or automated driving systems on that road, great! Should that data be able to be pulled to let the place you work check the morality clause in your contract? Hell no.

sokoloff 7y ago
Attending AA meetings, being treated for an STD or at a cancer center, and consistently leaving a bar at closing time are all perfectly legal, yet something people may wish to be able to exercise significant privacy over.
- bwb 7y ago
  Agreed, but that also doesn't mean the data can't be used when stripped of identifiers to improve the product and society. I don't want cell phone companies selling my specific location, but I also don't want them to not get data from my phone to improve their services where there are drop outs or other issues.
  - danso 7y ago
    You started this thread from the position that the data-logging device (and its manufacturer) is ultimately the data’s owner. So please justify to the folks in the “extreme privacy movement” why you think the data-owning companies should have any obligation to follow your various preferences for how your data cannot be used.
    - bwb 7y ago
      No, I started this thread by saying that data is not always owned purely by the person playing a role in its creation. I am tired of the extreme movement that all data I have a role in creating is mine, and I should have full control of it. I am worried about the ramifications on society and our ability to improve products and the way society/civilization works. I think Europe has taken some good steps toward that goal, but like any first try, it also has some stupid parts. Time and debate will improve it. I'd like to see us start crafting legislation that tries to find that middle ground between the data that should be private and the data that can be used to improve the product and society and thus make sure it is available.
  - sokoloff 7y ago
    Our history of completely anonymizing data is not good. "We have no idea which anonymous car it is that consistently drives between bwb's house, bwb's work, unsavory place X, unsavory place Y, and back to bwb's house everyday".
    - bwb 7y ago
      Agreed, like I said we need strong regulation and enforcement, but that doesn't mean we throw everything out because it is hard to do. It means we need to have the conversation about it and try to craft regulation/enforcement that supports society and doesn't take advantage of it.
  - rootusrootus 7y ago
    We have seen repeatedly that anonymizing data effectively is actually quite a lot more difficult than it seems. I'd much rather that we whitelist the data we think is worth collecting and analyzing for product improvement, instead of trying to blacklist the things we prefer are kept private.
    - bwb 7y ago
      Agreed, I am not saying I have the answer, but what I don't want is this movement happening in Europe and budding here that all data is MINE, and can't serve society/product improvements. I think that def might be a better approach.
cheerlessbog 7y ago
> what is wrong with visiting strip clubs I don't have a problem with it but we can agree that some people do, right?