5 ms·

She “brought up her ass to you” and your reply “slipped part your filter”. What does any of that mean?

0815test 7y ago
Presumably, it means that OP was made uncomfortable and voiced that discomfort in some way, and she took it badly/got offended for whatever reason. It's hard to say more than that based on what he/she stated - but even that implies that the workplace culture must be quite bad there. Not the sort of place many men would want to work in, for sure!
- throwaway84538 7y ago
  It was a younger workplace where sexual comments were not uncommon from either gender. For the most part, the more attractive you were the better liked you were by your peers. I actually had a pretty fantastic female boss when I was let go who was helping me work on being less socially awkward. She left me a glowing review on my LinkedIn and she was aware of everything that transpired and what was said. People who know me think this is funny, because they know me and how easily mortified I get when I say something I don't intend to. I'm significantly better now, but it's taken a lot of effort on my part. I've never been an overtly sexual person so this was a really odd situation for me to be in. In the end I ended up with a new job in a different place for lots more money.
pwinnski 7y ago
It seems like he said something inappropriate about a coworker's body, but it's still somehow the coworker's fault and a false allegation, according to him. When your self-reporting still makes you sound defensive about bad behavior, you probably need to come to terms with, and take responsibility for, your actions.
- 0815test 7y ago
  We don't know what OP said (or rather, mumbled out) about her body. From what OP states, it's reasonable to infer that they said "Your body is in my personal space, you're making me uncomfortable" or something to that effect. And then they got in trouble for that, which seems quite indefensible!
  - microwavecamera 7y ago
    That's a straw man argument built on pure conjecture. We're all educated adults here, that not going work.
  - pwinnski 7y ago
    > my confused reply, which I didn't mean to say it loud but being exhausted it slipped part my filter and I mumbled it out loud, was cited as sexual harassment Whatever he said, he immediately apologized for it, and still to this day blames fatigue and confusion and says he didn't mean to say it out loud. So no, it is completely unreasonable to infer anything other than an inappropriate comment. There is not a real world in which people are making innocent statements innocently and losing their jobs. That is a fantasy world that exists in the fever dreams of men who have trouble treating women as people.
    - 0815test 7y ago
      That depends on what you mean by "inappropriate", of course. People say all sorts of things they don't mean to when they're made uncomfortable by something, and the line between "discomfort", "confusion" and "fatigue" is itself quite fuzzy. And yes, they apologized for it immediately afterwards - but apologies themselves can be strategically unwise, and leave one open to manipulative behavior in response to a perceived display of weakness. Their wife certainly didn't seem to think OP's behavior was inappropriate in the way you're implying, and she'd obviously care if it was! All in all, I'm not sure why you seem to be willfully ignoring the whole part where OP explains what prompted their remark (whatever that might have been) in the first place; whether intentional or not, it seems that a somewhat "inappropriate" situation had already occurred by that time.
    - philonoist 7y ago
      "apologized either way." You have( maybe or maybe not purposefully) left out "either way" which means it need not be inappropriate by intention. Even then sadly, an apology is not enough for some weird concocted subjective self victimization and the eyes of OP's woman start putting off fire until the life of the OP gets totally ruined. "brought up her ass to me", "She shook her ass at me despite us having no real relationship","but they are all adults who don't behave like this to me." are as clear as sunny day. Sounds like that stupid woman came up to him and tried to seduce, sexually harass, or pull a cheap attention mongering stunt in the name of "part of fun time at office". You may find this ridiculous but there are women who do this. I have had to push a woman off of me in not so tightly packed elevator while she was "having fun" with her butt rubbing my genitals. She in fact, laugh out loud explaining this experience with colleagues in the office as 'first time an anal' and her boyfriend later. I was mortified and violated, fresh in the memory till date, but hey! since I am a guy, I am some closet monster prowling on women with a magical magnetic genital, who has total disregard to my sweat and blood to barely hope to lead a dignified life, have intact family and be a dedicated earner of higher promotions. Nobody should care if all of these require just one domino to start falling with, eh? Everybody can just paint me defensive and accept whatever non-sense as consequences of "my" acts. We must just believe and be at mercy of these women or risk all that we earned if we speak up against in these situations. In the mean time, those who did, just deny deny deny and gas-light them and brush them of as liar who genetically are incapable to treat women as fellow humans. The problem with us human beings is we have ingrained the gynocentric justice system in our minds where perhaps the women can never be wrong at all. Its always the guy's fault. Firstly we start by dismissing their experiences In the mean time, we start assigning them some "responsibility" they didn't need to burden themselves with in this misandrist new world. This is insulting to men and greatest injustice to other women as well. The OP's situation is also the time where people in same page say acceptable light-hearted comments which otherwise would be inappropriate or lewd. These comments are passed by women themselves routinely and accepted very well by bosses. For I have seen women spank a guy's arse and praise "sexy!" in stationary rooms or pull tie and ask something work related with innuendos, etc. I mean obviously an action gets a reaction, however confused or exhausted it may be. In fact, many do have a slip of tongue in exhaustion, how so ever we press hard to deny them of their own life experiences. We should not treat men like they don't matter, they are constantly doubted, they are not valued and be dismissed just because the opposite party in the situation happens to be a woman. There should be laws that outright fire these women with a code of conduct stamp as sexual harasser. That is the supposed real world we should give women to train them to treat men with respect and stop gas-lighting them.
- throwaway84538 7y ago
  I take responsibility for my actions, but this kind of proves the point of why guys don't want to be around women in the workplace. It doesn't matter what the situation is you're automatically assumed to be a lecherous hump. My comment which was meant as a "what the hell am I supposed to say to that" could easily have been construed differently. Bad behavior? I was mentally exhausted from 12 hours on the phone, locking up for the night, and someone I barely knew starts saying sexually suggestive comments at me and literally shaking her ass as she says it. What exactly do I need to come to terms with? I apologized because whatever I said I hadn't meant to say anything. I'm not saying what I said because it would immediately identify me as it was a really awkward thing to say in any conversation but it wasn't in any way sexually suggestive, i.e. I was not making any references to performing acts on her or requesting any acts from her, nor was I asking her to take it further, I was in no way going to impact her career as I didn't even work directly with her, this was a young woman I had spoken to roughly twice prior in a simple hello in the break room. I was horribly socially awkward back then and it's taken me years to get to the point I am today in social situations, I've worked on it and gotten better and I don't tolerate sexual harassment of women in my workplace, but that's not good enough. You want to know why men stop mentoring? Because one misconstrued comment can literally cost you a job. You're automatically assumed guilty, just like on this comment thread. It kind of sounds like men need to be defensive.
  - alphabettsy 7y ago
    Any implications are based on exactly what you said. You painted a picture of the scenario about like looking through Jello. In one sentence you say you made an inappropriate comment and apologized, and later lament that one misconstrued comment can cost you a job, but that’s not what happened. It seems like you still don’t feel any responsibility. Maybe the woman did tempt you, I don’t know what she said, but you make it seems as if she made the words come from your mouth. If she made sexually suggestive comments first, that’s wrong and she should’ve been disciplined as well, but how is anyone to know that when you can’t be straightforward.
    - philonoist 7y ago
      >Any implications are based on exactly what you said. You painted a picture of the scenario about like looking through Jello. Not at all. It is fault of our premature judgemental attitude. I have shown this how[0]. I will further prove how abysmal your comprehension skills are for all the irony to accuse him of that. >It seems like you still don’t feel any responsibility. Maybe the woman did tempt you, I don’t know what she said, but you make it seems as if she made the words come from your mouth. Wait a minute, so it is mere tempting if a woman does it, but sexual harassment when men does unconsented exhibition of penis? It is that easy to brush it off as be disciplined? Did the OP request her to twerk her arse? I side with OP and yes, he shouldn't burden responsibility. She alone is responsible for making the words come out of his mouth especially in fatigue. It was non-sexual and inappropriate. That doesn't give anybody any right to fire. This is why men are not mentoring women. Your comment adds weight to their decision. And more over, the way he said it matters more than what he said it? Like his grammar and presentation is all of a sudden the reason to judge? As I have written it before[0] - The OP's situation is also the time where people in same page say acceptable light-hearted comments which otherwise would be inappropriate or lewd. These comments are passed by women themselves routinely and accepted very well by bosses. For I have seen women spank a guy's arse and praise "sexy!" in stationary rooms or pull tie and ask something work related with innuendos, etc. I mean obviously an action gets a reaction, however confused or exhausted it may be. In fact, many do have a slip of tongue in exhaustion, how so ever we press hard to deny them of their own life experiences. We should not treat men like they don't matter, they are constantly doubted, they are not valued and be dismissed just because the opposite party in the situation happens to be a woman. There should be laws that outright fire these women with a code of conduct stamp as sexual harasser. That is the supposed real world we should give women to train them to treat men with respect and stop gas-lighting them. >In one sentence you say you made an inappropriate comment and apologized, and later lament that one misconstrued comment can cost you a job, but that’s not what happened. He apologized "any way" which means he didn't want trouble in times of paranoia and wants to assuage. Even an apology is not enough these days. It doesn't mean he acknowledges his "mistakes". And you wonder why men don't mentor women? Why is it so hard to think that inappropriate comments can be non-sexual in nature and doesn't deserve running to parents like kids. He didn't even imply anything sexual[1]. It was you who were quick to judge. You should take responsibility. He did lose his job. He wrote that clearly in the first few sentences itself[1] and also other comment[2]. [0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19971760 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19971760 [1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19969673 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19969673 [2]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19975794 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19975794

Presumably, it means that OP was made uncomfortable and voiced that discomfort in some way, and she took it badly/got offended for whatever reason. It's hard to say more than that based on what he/she stated - but even that implies that the workplace culture must be quite bad there. Not the sort of place many men would want to work in, for sure!

throwaway84538 7y ago
It was a younger workplace where sexual comments were not uncommon from either gender. For the most part, the more attractive you were the better liked you were by your peers. I actually had a pretty fantastic female boss when I was let go who was helping me work on being less socially awkward. She left me a glowing review on my LinkedIn and she was aware of everything that transpired and what was said. People who know me think this is funny, because they know me and how easily mortified I get when I say something I don't intend to. I'm significantly better now, but it's taken a lot of effort on my part. I've never been an overtly sexual person so this was a really odd situation for me to be in. In the end I ended up with a new job in a different place for lots more money.

pwinnski 7y ago

It seems like he said something inappropriate about a coworker's body, but it's still somehow the coworker's fault and a false allegation, according to him. When your self-reporting still makes you sound defensive about bad behavior, you probably need to come to terms with, and take responsibility for, your actions.

0815test 7y ago
We don't know what OP said (or rather, mumbled out) about her body. From what OP states, it's reasonable to infer that they said "Your body is in my personal space, you're making me uncomfortable" or something to that effect. And then they got in trouble for that, which seems quite indefensible!
- microwavecamera 7y ago
  That's a straw man argument built on pure conjecture. We're all educated adults here, that not going work.
- pwinnski 7y ago
  > my confused reply, which I didn't mean to say it loud but being exhausted it slipped part my filter and I mumbled it out loud, was cited as sexual harassment Whatever he said, he immediately apologized for it, and still to this day blames fatigue and confusion and says he didn't mean to say it out loud. So no, it is completely unreasonable to infer anything other than an inappropriate comment. There is not a real world in which people are making innocent statements innocently and losing their jobs. That is a fantasy world that exists in the fever dreams of men who have trouble treating women as people.
  - 0815test 7y ago
    That depends on what you mean by "inappropriate", of course. People say all sorts of things they don't mean to when they're made uncomfortable by something, and the line between "discomfort", "confusion" and "fatigue" is itself quite fuzzy. And yes, they apologized for it immediately afterwards - but apologies themselves can be strategically unwise, and leave one open to manipulative behavior in response to a perceived display of weakness. Their wife certainly didn't seem to think OP's behavior was inappropriate in the way you're implying, and she'd obviously care if it was! All in all, I'm not sure why you seem to be willfully ignoring the whole part where OP explains what prompted their remark (whatever that might have been) in the first place; whether intentional or not, it seems that a somewhat "inappropriate" situation had already occurred by that time.
  - philonoist 7y ago
    "apologized either way." You have( maybe or maybe not purposefully) left out "either way" which means it need not be inappropriate by intention. Even then sadly, an apology is not enough for some weird concocted subjective self victimization and the eyes of OP's woman start putting off fire until the life of the OP gets totally ruined. "brought up her ass to me", "She shook her ass at me despite us having no real relationship","but they are all adults who don't behave like this to me." are as clear as sunny day. Sounds like that stupid woman came up to him and tried to seduce, sexually harass, or pull a cheap attention mongering stunt in the name of "part of fun time at office". You may find this ridiculous but there are women who do this. I have had to push a woman off of me in not so tightly packed elevator while she was "having fun" with her butt rubbing my genitals. She in fact, laugh out loud explaining this experience with colleagues in the office as 'first time an anal' and her boyfriend later. I was mortified and violated, fresh in the memory till date, but hey! since I am a guy, I am some closet monster prowling on women with a magical magnetic genital, who has total disregard to my sweat and blood to barely hope to lead a dignified life, have intact family and be a dedicated earner of higher promotions. Nobody should care if all of these require just one domino to start falling with, eh? Everybody can just paint me defensive and accept whatever non-sense as consequences of "my" acts. We must just believe and be at mercy of these women or risk all that we earned if we speak up against in these situations. In the mean time, those who did, just deny deny deny and gas-light them and brush them of as liar who genetically are incapable to treat women as fellow humans. The problem with us human beings is we have ingrained the gynocentric justice system in our minds where perhaps the women can never be wrong at all. Its always the guy's fault. Firstly we start by dismissing their experiences In the mean time, we start assigning them some "responsibility" they didn't need to burden themselves with in this misandrist new world. This is insulting to men and greatest injustice to other women as well. The OP's situation is also the time where people in same page say acceptable light-hearted comments which otherwise would be inappropriate or lewd. These comments are passed by women themselves routinely and accepted very well by bosses. For I have seen women spank a guy's arse and praise "sexy!" in stationary rooms or pull tie and ask something work related with innuendos, etc. I mean obviously an action gets a reaction, however confused or exhausted it may be. In fact, many do have a slip of tongue in exhaustion, how so ever we press hard to deny them of their own life experiences. We should not treat men like they don't matter, they are constantly doubted, they are not valued and be dismissed just because the opposite party in the situation happens to be a woman. There should be laws that outright fire these women with a code of conduct stamp as sexual harasser. That is the supposed real world we should give women to train them to treat men with respect and stop gas-lighting them.
throwaway84538 7y ago
I take responsibility for my actions, but this kind of proves the point of why guys don't want to be around women in the workplace. It doesn't matter what the situation is you're automatically assumed to be a lecherous hump. My comment which was meant as a "what the hell am I supposed to say to that" could easily have been construed differently. Bad behavior? I was mentally exhausted from 12 hours on the phone, locking up for the night, and someone I barely knew starts saying sexually suggestive comments at me and literally shaking her ass as she says it. What exactly do I need to come to terms with? I apologized because whatever I said I hadn't meant to say anything. I'm not saying what I said because it would immediately identify me as it was a really awkward thing to say in any conversation but it wasn't in any way sexually suggestive, i.e. I was not making any references to performing acts on her or requesting any acts from her, nor was I asking her to take it further, I was in no way going to impact her career as I didn't even work directly with her, this was a young woman I had spoken to roughly twice prior in a simple hello in the break room. I was horribly socially awkward back then and it's taken me years to get to the point I am today in social situations, I've worked on it and gotten better and I don't tolerate sexual harassment of women in my workplace, but that's not good enough. You want to know why men stop mentoring? Because one misconstrued comment can literally cost you a job. You're automatically assumed guilty, just like on this comment thread. It kind of sounds like men need to be defensive.
- alphabettsy 7y ago
  Any implications are based on exactly what you said. You painted a picture of the scenario about like looking through Jello. In one sentence you say you made an inappropriate comment and apologized, and later lament that one misconstrued comment can cost you a job, but that’s not what happened. It seems like you still don’t feel any responsibility. Maybe the woman did tempt you, I don’t know what she said, but you make it seems as if she made the words come from your mouth. If she made sexually suggestive comments first, that’s wrong and she should’ve been disciplined as well, but how is anyone to know that when you can’t be straightforward.
  - philonoist 7y ago
    >Any implications are based on exactly what you said. You painted a picture of the scenario about like looking through Jello. Not at all. It is fault of our premature judgemental attitude. I have shown this how[0]. I will further prove how abysmal your comprehension skills are for all the irony to accuse him of that. >It seems like you still don’t feel any responsibility. Maybe the woman did tempt you, I don’t know what she said, but you make it seems as if she made the words come from your mouth. Wait a minute, so it is mere tempting if a woman does it, but sexual harassment when men does unconsented exhibition of penis? It is that easy to brush it off as be disciplined? Did the OP request her to twerk her arse? I side with OP and yes, he shouldn't burden responsibility. She alone is responsible for making the words come out of his mouth especially in fatigue. It was non-sexual and inappropriate. That doesn't give anybody any right to fire. This is why men are not mentoring women. Your comment adds weight to their decision. And more over, the way he said it matters more than what he said it? Like his grammar and presentation is all of a sudden the reason to judge? As I have written it before[0] - The OP's situation is also the time where people in same page say acceptable light-hearted comments which otherwise would be inappropriate or lewd. These comments are passed by women themselves routinely and accepted very well by bosses. For I have seen women spank a guy's arse and praise "sexy!" in stationary rooms or pull tie and ask something work related with innuendos, etc. I mean obviously an action gets a reaction, however confused or exhausted it may be. In fact, many do have a slip of tongue in exhaustion, how so ever we press hard to deny them of their own life experiences. We should not treat men like they don't matter, they are constantly doubted, they are not valued and be dismissed just because the opposite party in the situation happens to be a woman. There should be laws that outright fire these women with a code of conduct stamp as sexual harasser. That is the supposed real world we should give women to train them to treat men with respect and stop gas-lighting them. >In one sentence you say you made an inappropriate comment and apologized, and later lament that one misconstrued comment can cost you a job, but that’s not what happened. He apologized "any way" which means he didn't want trouble in times of paranoia and wants to assuage. Even an apology is not enough these days. It doesn't mean he acknowledges his "mistakes". And you wonder why men don't mentor women? Why is it so hard to think that inappropriate comments can be non-sexual in nature and doesn't deserve running to parents like kids. He didn't even imply anything sexual[1]. It was you who were quick to judge. You should take responsibility. He did lose his job. He wrote that clearly in the first few sentences itself[1] and also other comment[2]. [0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19971760 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19971760 [1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19969673 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19969673 [2]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19975794 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19975794