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> Mark Zuckerberg testified in-front of congress and stated they do I just want to point out that "testified in-front of Congress" seems to have no relation to

by cyphar 7y ago

> Mark Zuckerberg testified in-front of congress and stated they do I just want to point out that "testified in-front of Congress" seems to have no relation to the truth of any statement. I don't recall the last time (if ever) there have been legal ramifications for lying in front of Congress. Zuckerberg also testified that shadow profiles don't exist and that users can always remove their personal information from Facebook (they do exist, and you can't). James Clapper testified that the NSA doesn't "wittingly" surveil hundreds of millions of Americans (they do, very "wittingly").

IanCal 7y ago
> I don't recall the last time (if ever) there have been legal ramifications for lying in front of Congress. It's one of the reasons Cohen is in prison, isn't it?
- cyphar 7y ago
  He lied to the FBI after a plea bargain which involved him telling them the truth. From memory, this all happened before his Congress testimony but it's definitely not related. It is illegal to lie to Congress (unrelated to whether you're under oath or not), but I can think of very few examples where there were real ramifications for it.
  - IanCal 7y ago
    > He lied to the FBI after a plea bargain which involved him telling them the truth. Sure you're not thinking of Manafort? I don't think Cohen had a plea deal, and I don't think he was charged with lying to the FBI. Manafort and Flynn did, and Manafort I think was the one that then broke the deal. There's a lot of crimes to keep track of. I guess it depends on what you mean by real ramifications as it's being served concurrently but Cohen is serving two months for lying to Congress, a charge he plead guilty to.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - lambada 7y ago
      Yep, that looks right from his Wikipedia article. One count of making false statements to a congressional committee. It’s not immediately obvious to me when he was charged/convicted of that though. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Cohen_(lawyer) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Cohen_(lawyer)
  - sjy 7y ago
    Cohen pleaded guilty to several charges [1], including some that alleged that he lied in a written statement sent to the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence and House of Representatives Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on 28 August 2017, and then repeated those lies in his testimony to the Senate committee on 25 October 2017. [1] https://www.justice.gov/file/1115596/download https://www.justice.gov/file/1115596/download
irjustin 7y ago
Testifying in Congress absolutely carries legal ramifications. It's just pretty hard to pin it so I agree with the "difficult" sentiment. https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/11/is-zuckerberg-under-oath-congress/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/11/is-zuckerberg-under-oath-c... John M Poindexter was one who was convicted of lying to Congress: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Poindexter#U.S._executive_branch_service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Poindexter#U.S._executive...
- cyphar 7y ago
  I agree that it is technically illegal, but if the most recent example of a conviction (that you can think of) was almost 30 years ago that tells you that it's effectively unenforced.
  - moccachino 7y ago
    Michael Cohen was sentenced for exactly this [1] just a few months ago. [1] https://www.economist.com/united-states/2018/12/13/michael-cohen-was-sentenced-to-prison-for-things-he-did-for-his-boss https://www.economist.com/united-states/2018/12/13/michael-c...
    - scottlocklin 7y ago
      Yet James Clapper somehow got away with it. As do a lot of other people who have the same "political opinions" as Zuck.
    - LinuxBender 7y ago
      Didn't that also involve lying to federal investigators?
  - sjy 7y ago
    Does it? One conviction in 30 years is also consistent with the conclusion that not that many people get invited to give evidence to Congress, and the people that do tell the truth (or at least don't tell provable lies).
  - 7y ago

by cyphar 7y ago

IanCal 7y ago

> I don't recall the last time (if ever) there have been legal ramifications for lying in front of Congress. It's one of the reasons Cohen is in prison, isn't it?

cyphar 7y ago
He lied to the FBI after a plea bargain which involved him telling them the truth. From memory, this all happened before his Congress testimony but it's definitely not related. It is illegal to lie to Congress (unrelated to whether you're under oath or not), but I can think of very few examples where there were real ramifications for it.
- IanCal 7y ago
  > He lied to the FBI after a plea bargain which involved him telling them the truth. Sure you're not thinking of Manafort? I don't think Cohen had a plea deal, and I don't think he was charged with lying to the FBI. Manafort and Flynn did, and Manafort I think was the one that then broke the deal. There's a lot of crimes to keep track of. I guess it depends on what you mean by real ramifications as it's being served concurrently but Cohen is serving two months for lying to Congress, a charge he plead guilty to.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - lambada 7y ago
    Yep, that looks right from his Wikipedia article. One count of making false statements to a congressional committee. It’s not immediately obvious to me when he was charged/convicted of that though. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Cohen_(lawyer) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Cohen_(lawyer)
- sjy 7y ago
  Cohen pleaded guilty to several charges [1], including some that alleged that he lied in a written statement sent to the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence and House of Representatives Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on 28 August 2017, and then repeated those lies in his testimony to the Senate committee on 25 October 2017. [1] https://www.justice.gov/file/1115596/download https://www.justice.gov/file/1115596/download

irjustin 7y ago

Testifying in Congress absolutely carries legal ramifications. It's just pretty hard to pin it so I agree with the "difficult" sentiment. https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/11/is-zuckerberg-under-oath-congress/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/11/is-zuckerberg-under-oath-c... John M Poindexter was one who was convicted of lying to Congress: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Poindexter#U.S._executive_branch_service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Poindexter#U.S._executive...

cyphar 7y ago
I agree that it is technically illegal, but if the most recent example of a conviction (that you can think of) was almost 30 years ago that tells you that it's effectively unenforced.
- moccachino 7y ago
  Michael Cohen was sentenced for exactly this [1] just a few months ago. [1] https://www.economist.com/united-states/2018/12/13/michael-cohen-was-sentenced-to-prison-for-things-he-did-for-his-boss https://www.economist.com/united-states/2018/12/13/michael-c...
  - scottlocklin 7y ago
    Yet James Clapper somehow got away with it. As do a lot of other people who have the same "political opinions" as Zuck.
  - LinuxBender 7y ago
    Didn't that also involve lying to federal investigators?
- sjy 7y ago
  Does it? One conviction in 30 years is also consistent with the conclusion that not that many people get invited to give evidence to Congress, and the people that do tell the truth (or at least don't tell provable lies).
- 7y ago