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>That's what software is - every project is a brand new thing that has never been done before - there isn't 200 years of learning to fall back on. Sorry but th

>That's what software is - every project is a brand new thing that has never been done before - there isn't 200 years of learning to fall back on. Sorry but this is just gatekeeping bullshit. Most apps being built today by companies with the budget to build them are TODO apps, report apps, storefronts, big data mungers, CRMs, etc. They all just have different business requirements and domain specific knowledge. To think that every software project can't be categorized is ridiculous.

kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
The firmware in all the electronic gizmos in your life aren't running "just apps". Much of it is poorly developed shoot from the hip code that is riddled with bugs. Some of it is running in cars and planes that manage to kill people because of hubris.
- phkahler 7y ago
  And some of it is developed under standards like ISO 26262, or IEC 61508. You would be amazed at what goes into your steering, braking, airbag, and stability control systems.
- bluntfang 7y ago
  You think that's most of what's being developed today? Life critical firmware?
jacobsenscott 7y ago
I honestly don't know what gatekeeping means in this context. > all just have different business requirements and domain specific knowledge Yeah - that's what I said. You realize that's where all the complexity is, right?
- bluntfang 7y ago
  >I honestly don't know what gatekeeping means in this context. you're trying to create a barrier to standardization. You don't want to codify successful patterns to keep your job coveted. >Yeah - that's what I said. You realize that's where all the complexity is, right? That's not what you said.
  - jacobsenscott 7y ago
    > you're trying to create a barrier to standardization. You don't want to codify successful patterns to keep your job coveted. Ugh. I use as many libraries and services as possible so I can focus on writing code when no standard tools exist. That will keep me busy every day forever. If you think I'm out there sabotaging standardization efforts you're delusional. I wouldn't even know how to do that. Slash tires at a W3C convention or something?
  - jdmichal 7y ago
    You're being extremely uncharitable. Look, business processes are different at every single company. Especially between companies doing the exact same thing. Which means that the software ostensibly doing the exact same thing at each of these companies is going to vary dramatically. Because the software at a company aligns to the business processes of that company. This is the true heart of Conway's law: "organizations which design systems ... are constrained to produce designs which are copies of the communication structures of these organizations." And there is no fixing this. It's baked directly into the axioms. If every company in a domain ran exactly the same way, there would be no such thing as a competitive advantage.
repolfx 7y ago
Yeah, and a lot of that software sucks because the companies who pay for it to be developed want the cheapest possible thing that just about works and not some ultra-engineered unkillable concrete bunker of an app that costs them 50x more. That was the entire point of the agile revolution - get rid of waterfall methods inherited from classical physical engineering and switch to constant iteration and shipping, with fixes to not-quite-right work being done whilst workers are in the building. Software engineering became less like regular engineering because that's what the customers wanted, and who's to say they were wrong?

kevin_thibedeau 7y ago

The firmware in all the electronic gizmos in your life aren't running "just apps". Much of it is poorly developed shoot from the hip code that is riddled with bugs. Some of it is running in cars and planes that manage to kill people because of hubris.

phkahler 7y ago
And some of it is developed under standards like ISO 26262, or IEC 61508. You would be amazed at what goes into your steering, braking, airbag, and stability control systems.
bluntfang 7y ago
You think that's most of what's being developed today? Life critical firmware?

jacobsenscott 7y ago

I honestly don't know what gatekeeping means in this context. > all just have different business requirements and domain specific knowledge Yeah - that's what I said. You realize that's where all the complexity is, right?

bluntfang 7y ago
>I honestly don't know what gatekeeping means in this context. you're trying to create a barrier to standardization. You don't want to codify successful patterns to keep your job coveted. >Yeah - that's what I said. You realize that's where all the complexity is, right? That's not what you said.
- jacobsenscott 7y ago
  > you're trying to create a barrier to standardization. You don't want to codify successful patterns to keep your job coveted. Ugh. I use as many libraries and services as possible so I can focus on writing code when no standard tools exist. That will keep me busy every day forever. If you think I'm out there sabotaging standardization efforts you're delusional. I wouldn't even know how to do that. Slash tires at a W3C convention or something?
- jdmichal 7y ago
  You're being extremely uncharitable. Look, business processes are different at every single company. Especially between companies doing the exact same thing. Which means that the software ostensibly doing the exact same thing at each of these companies is going to vary dramatically. Because the software at a company aligns to the business processes of that company. This is the true heart of Conway's law: "organizations which design systems ... are constrained to produce designs which are copies of the communication structures of these organizations." And there is no fixing this. It's baked directly into the axioms. If every company in a domain ran exactly the same way, there would be no such thing as a competitive advantage.

repolfx 7y ago

Yeah, and a lot of that software sucks because the companies who pay for it to be developed want the cheapest possible thing that just about works and not some ultra-engineered unkillable concrete bunker of an app that costs them 50x more. That was the entire point of the agile revolution - get rid of waterfall methods inherited from classical physical engineering and switch to constant iteration and shipping, with fixes to not-quite-right work being done whilst workers are in the building. Software engineering became less like regular engineering because that's what the customers wanted, and who's to say they were wrong?