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> I'm from the UK where British politics is dysfunctional and rotten to the core. Oh God, it’s a disaster to watch. The Tories are repeatedly kicking themselve

> I'm from the UK where British politics is dysfunctional and rotten to the core. Oh God, it’s a disaster to watch. The Tories are repeatedly kicking themselves in the balls publicly and Labour is run by someone who has almost no support from MPs and who comes third after “Don’t know” in the rankings of potential prime ministers.

viivaux 7y ago
Are you talking about Corbyn? The guy with broad support despite an unremitting smear campaign from every single corner of the media from The Grauniad to the Beeb, never mind the tabloids? The guy who has been astonishingly effective standing up to the Maybots and revitalised Labour? I'm very curious what poll you're referring to there that has him after "don't know".
- ben_w 7y ago
  YouGov survey for the Times: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/polling-shows-voters-opt-for-may-but-even-more-don-t-know-dmm8sghrg https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/polling-shows-voters... I used to like him. I wish he was all that you call him.
  - viivaux 7y ago
    An online poll. Huh. What did I 'call him' that you disagree with?
    - ben_w 7y ago
      That he has “broad support“, that he has “been astonishingly effective”, and that he has “revitalised Labour”. I wish all those things were true. Unrelated: while YouGov is indeed online, it chooses which people to send the surveys to and has long-term profiles on each of them, so unlike a silly Twitter poll it has decent statistical relevance and the biases seem to be persistent, well quantified, and generally accounted for — you shouldn’t dismiss it just because you don’t like what it’s saying.
- rospaya 7y ago
  He could stop Brexit but won't, which makes him at least as evil as May in my book.
  - ben_w 7y ago
    Could he, though? In most of the surveys I’ve seen, all options are only supported by a minority, including stopping it. Only a few surveys report that any particular outcome has >50% support, and most of those only just.
- eli_gottlieb 7y ago
  Getting tankies to crawl out of the woodwork isn't quite the same as revitalizing a democratic socialist party. You can get a certain number of people immediately on your side in left politics just by saying something to the left of all previous electoral candidates for high office -- see, Bernie Sanders in the United States. Now, I support Sanders and quite like Corbyn minus the Brexit and the antisemitism issues, but they both face a similar challenge: their core support bases aren't actually ideologically coherent, let alone aligned entirely behind the candidates' programs. Lots of leftists basically treat Sanders or Corbyn as beloved old conservative uncles, while insisting that nobody with Sanders' or Corbyn's actual (social democratic to democratic socialist) politics should encouraged within Left politics.
  - viivaux 7y ago
    Antisemitism? Show me the most antisemitic thing Corbyn has ever done. These slurs on his character are spread by newspapers and TV but when you look into them there's nothing there. If you can't give me an example, please consider that you might have 'been had'. Your statements about tankies and Sanders are beyond incoherent. I really have no idea how to talk with you if you think Corbyn's base is entirely 'tankies' and Sanders is the most left candidate ever seen. Your 'point' about their ideological coherence says more about you than anyone else.
eli_gottlieb 7y ago
>Labour is run by someone who has almost no support from MPs and who comes third after “Don’t know” in the rankings of potential prime ministers. Well if he'd stop trying to have it both ways on the biggest issue of the day against the will of most of his voters and party members...
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viivaux 7y ago

Are you talking about Corbyn? The guy with broad support despite an unremitting smear campaign from every single corner of the media from The Grauniad to the Beeb, never mind the tabloids? The guy who has been astonishingly effective standing up to the Maybots and revitalised Labour? I'm very curious what poll you're referring to there that has him after "don't know".

ben_w 7y ago
YouGov survey for the Times: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/polling-shows-voters-opt-for-may-but-even-more-don-t-know-dmm8sghrg https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/polling-shows-voters... I used to like him. I wish he was all that you call him.
- viivaux 7y ago
  An online poll. Huh. What did I 'call him' that you disagree with?
  - ben_w 7y ago
    That he has “broad support“, that he has “been astonishingly effective”, and that he has “revitalised Labour”. I wish all those things were true. Unrelated: while YouGov is indeed online, it chooses which people to send the surveys to and has long-term profiles on each of them, so unlike a silly Twitter poll it has decent statistical relevance and the biases seem to be persistent, well quantified, and generally accounted for — you shouldn’t dismiss it just because you don’t like what it’s saying.
rospaya 7y ago
He could stop Brexit but won't, which makes him at least as evil as May in my book.
- ben_w 7y ago
  Could he, though? In most of the surveys I’ve seen, all options are only supported by a minority, including stopping it. Only a few surveys report that any particular outcome has >50% support, and most of those only just.
eli_gottlieb 7y ago
Getting tankies to crawl out of the woodwork isn't quite the same as revitalizing a democratic socialist party. You can get a certain number of people immediately on your side in left politics just by saying something to the left of all previous electoral candidates for high office -- see, Bernie Sanders in the United States. Now, I support Sanders and quite like Corbyn minus the Brexit and the antisemitism issues, but they both face a similar challenge: their core support bases aren't actually ideologically coherent, let alone aligned entirely behind the candidates' programs. Lots of leftists basically treat Sanders or Corbyn as beloved old conservative uncles, while insisting that nobody with Sanders' or Corbyn's actual (social democratic to democratic socialist) politics should encouraged within Left politics.
- viivaux 7y ago
  Antisemitism? Show me the most antisemitic thing Corbyn has ever done. These slurs on his character are spread by newspapers and TV but when you look into them there's nothing there. If you can't give me an example, please consider that you might have 'been had'. Your statements about tankies and Sanders are beyond incoherent. I really have no idea how to talk with you if you think Corbyn's base is entirely 'tankies' and Sanders is the most left candidate ever seen. Your 'point' about their ideological coherence says more about you than anyone else.

eli_gottlieb 7y ago

>Labour is run by someone who has almost no support from MPs and who comes third after “Don’t know” in the rankings of potential prime ministers. Well if he'd stop trying to have it both ways on the biggest issue of the day against the will of most of his voters and party members...

deleted 7y ago

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