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In capitalism, by definition you are compensated less than the work you put in. The leftover is called "Surplus". And that is divvied up between the board,C lev

In capitalism, by definition you are compensated less than the work you put in. The leftover is called "Surplus". And that is divvied up between the board,C levels, and shareholders (sometimes). The surplus is never split up to the ones who actually do the work. I'm sure the complaint will be that I'm calling for state socialism. Nope. I'm calling for worker coops, and worker owned businesses. That way, we the workers can profit(positively or negatively) from our own input.

dnautics 7y ago
> "to the ones who actually do the work" who gets to define what constitutes work?
- jeena 7y ago
  It's pretty easy, if the person disappears, are the goods/services still provided? If so, then that person did not do anything which constituted work.
chongli 7y ago
Who supplies the capital for worker co-ops? That's the problem, as I see it. Yeah, workers lose out on the surplus in typical company. However, workers aren't risking their own capital. If the company goes bankrupt, the worker only loses their job, not their investment (unless they took equity as part of a compensation package).
- Taniwha 7y ago
  The workers of course - most small to medium sized law firms are worker co-ops where new members 'buy a seat', effectively adding their share of the working capital
  - chongli 7y ago
    That works well for law firms because law firms are built on human capital. How do you accomplish this with capital-intensive heavy industry such as automobile manufacturing? If your plant is worth a billion dollars and you have 1000 employees, do you charge a new worker ~$1 million to "buy their seat?" And if so, how do you prevent an outside investor from "sponsoring" the million-dollar buy-in for multiple employees, in exchange for a cut of their wages (in effect, duplicating the capitalism we have right now)? The above model situation is more-or-less identical to what you see with taxicab medallions in big cities like New York. There are taxicab companies who buy multiple medallions (at great cost) and rent them to drivers, contradicting our usual expectation that taxicab drivers are self-capitalized entrepreneurs.
  - walshemj 7y ago
    Are they I though that was partnerships or really the v old guild mode. Anteing is a very Spanish mondragon thing I haven't heard of it in the UK
  - dragonwriter 7y ago
    > most small to medium sized law firms are worker co-ops Really? Paralegals, secretaries etc. are equal full partners? A partnership of professionals with wage-labor support staff isn't a labor coop.
    - Taniwha 7y ago
      You're right of course - the partners however do work this way, mostly I was trying to point out that a worker coop is not a new thing, or necessarily a communist lefty thing - forms of it have long been part and parcel of business
RaceWon 7y ago
> I'm calling for worker coops, and worker owned businesses I'm not being argumentative here; I just want to point out that Not everyone is Brilliant and Extraordinary, at least Not in their job. On the other hand--some people are. On a personally note: a huge deciding factor in my getting out of a family business was due to an association that my late father had with a competitor. Yes he was much older, and of course more experienced, but I knew I could not compete with him. Period, end of story. Furthermore, from the ten years I did run that business (and successfully by most metrics), I also met other people who ran other types of businesses, that were also just ridiculously talented at their work. People like that have almost a Sixth Sense about what to do, and what not to do and when to do it. I may have that in certain arenas, But I did not posses it in that family business.

dnautics 7y ago

> "to the ones who actually do the work" who gets to define what constitutes work?

jeena 7y ago
It's pretty easy, if the person disappears, are the goods/services still provided? If so, then that person did not do anything which constituted work.

chongli 7y ago

Who supplies the capital for worker co-ops? That's the problem, as I see it. Yeah, workers lose out on the surplus in typical company. However, workers aren't risking their own capital. If the company goes bankrupt, the worker only loses their job, not their investment (unless they took equity as part of a compensation package).

Taniwha 7y ago
The workers of course - most small to medium sized law firms are worker co-ops where new members 'buy a seat', effectively adding their share of the working capital
- chongli 7y ago
  That works well for law firms because law firms are built on human capital. How do you accomplish this with capital-intensive heavy industry such as automobile manufacturing? If your plant is worth a billion dollars and you have 1000 employees, do you charge a new worker ~$1 million to "buy their seat?" And if so, how do you prevent an outside investor from "sponsoring" the million-dollar buy-in for multiple employees, in exchange for a cut of their wages (in effect, duplicating the capitalism we have right now)? The above model situation is more-or-less identical to what you see with taxicab medallions in big cities like New York. There are taxicab companies who buy multiple medallions (at great cost) and rent them to drivers, contradicting our usual expectation that taxicab drivers are self-capitalized entrepreneurs.
- walshemj 7y ago
  Are they I though that was partnerships or really the v old guild mode. Anteing is a very Spanish mondragon thing I haven't heard of it in the UK
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > most small to medium sized law firms are worker co-ops Really? Paralegals, secretaries etc. are equal full partners? A partnership of professionals with wage-labor support staff isn't a labor coop.
  - Taniwha 7y ago
    You're right of course - the partners however do work this way, mostly I was trying to point out that a worker coop is not a new thing, or necessarily a communist lefty thing - forms of it have long been part and parcel of business

RaceWon 7y ago

> I'm calling for worker coops, and worker owned businesses I'm not being argumentative here; I just want to point out that Not everyone is Brilliant and Extraordinary, at least Not in their job. On the other hand--some people are. On a personally note: a huge deciding factor in my getting out of a family business was due to an association that my late father had with a competitor. Yes he was much older, and of course more experienced, but I knew I could not compete with him. Period, end of story. Furthermore, from the ten years I did run that business (and successfully by most metrics), I also met other people who ran other types of businesses, that were also just ridiculously talented at their work. People like that have almost a Sixth Sense about what to do, and what not to do and when to do it. I may have that in certain arenas, But I did not posses it in that family business.