10 ms·

Microsoft’s Edge for Mac browser now available in preview

82 points by UkiahSmith 7y ago

merb 7y ago
I must say, I'm a little bit impressed. it's fast and has a lot of settings that are simple to understand and still looks to favor privacy. it can run Extensions from Microsoft and you can install additional extension stores (like google) with just a click. (of course not all extensions will work, like 1password+app didn't but 1password x, did)
- SpikeDad 7y ago
  Guess I don't see any reason for a 4th (and even more if you consider Chrome variants) browser to exist. It takes a lot to make me get off of Safari. About the only time I do is when I must have Flash for streaming services and then I use Chrome's integrated flash support. I guess if MS adds all of the proprietary features of Edge on Windows so that macOS users can run locked in Windows web apps that might be a highly attractive reason but it seems they're not going to be doing that. I'm wondering if they're using integrated Keychain support? I guess if it's build on Chromium perhaps not. Frankly for me that's a non starter.
  - merb 7y ago
    > I'm wondering if they're using integrated Keychain support? ah sorry can't answer that, the first thing I did was checking out 1password. I mostly replace 1password as the password manager for my browsers.
  - Acen 7y ago
    They don't support keychain for the individual sites (though it does use the keychain password like chrome to encrypt site logon credentials) but it does use it for application passwords. Like logging into Edge itself for the user data syncing.
    - stiGGG 7y ago
      AFAIK keychain access is only allowed for apps distributed through the Mac AppStore since a while. This is why Chrome removed the feature.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - SpikeDad 7y ago
        There's nothing in the developer section https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security that specifies this restriction. Maybe I couldn't find the reference. I'm pretty sure the Chrome folks removed it because they didn't think the Keychain was secure (at least from the readings I've done).
    - SpikeDad 7y ago
      That's not true at all. All macOS apps have full access to the Security framework in macOS including Keychain and keychain element management. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security
  - alanh 7y ago
    the best reason for Edge/Mac to exist is simple: developers, developers, developers.
    - SpikeDad 7y ago
      Except Edge isn't a Mac-looking application. It starts with Chromium which isn't a standard Mac UI and gloms on plenty of stuff that's not Mac-like either. What's gonna be the advantage of using Edge over Chrome from a developer standpoint?
ZeroGravitas 7y ago
Does this include the IE11 mode or is that seperate and Windows only?
- WorldMaker 7y ago
  IE11 Mode hasn't even yet made into Windows Insider builds yet. Also, the assumption is that it would have to be Windows only because IE11 itself is (and likely always will be) Windows only.
- jordache 7y ago
  The fragmentation between Edge on Mac sans IE11 vs Edge on Windows w/ IE11 mode will be very confusing. How do you even market this? The whole point of IE11 is to ensure legacy IE compatible apps don't break. But then you can't advertise this with thought the huge caveat that it's a benefit on Edge Windows only.
piotrkubisa 7y ago
What is an idea of Edge on Mac? Is there any incentive to provide a browser that is available on other OS-es than Windows? Vivaldi and Opera went similar way, trying to cut some piece of browser market cake using a Blink engine and similar ecosystem as Chrome. Except Edge-only (i.e. Skype, Office365, Stadia-like platform) business game I don't see why it should cut in a market, especially in non-Windows operating systems.
- blowski 7y ago
  I’d guess you answered your own question - Edge-only apps. There are a lot of Microsoft-only IT environments now having to deal with Macs.
  - anoncake 7y ago
    > Edge-only apps Still the Microsoft we know and love.
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      Does hangouts finally work on Firefox?
      - anoncake 7y ago
        I don't know, and if it does not, it still does not behave justify Microsoft's behaviour.
- detaro 7y ago
  Common management platform with Windows Edge for enterprises maybe? Things like per-domain security policies, accepted certificates, plugins/addons, ...
  - detaro 7y ago
    Another angle is sync and same experience cross-platform.
blowski 7y ago
That domain name looks like a phishing attack waiting to happen.
- qxcbr 7y ago
  Right? If you asked me, I'd say that domain "microsoftedgeinsider.com" belongs to some Indian scamming call centre. For what reason have they purchased that domain instead of hosting it under microsoft.com ?
  - anoncake 7y ago
    Buying a domain was easier than dealing with the MS department of subdomains of microsoft.com?
    - BlackRing 7y ago
      I would have believed that if it were HP. Snark aside, it is unusual behavior coming from Microsoft.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
  - londons_explore 7y ago
    Hosting things under microsoft.com is bad for security. One xss attack anywhere on the domain can steal cookies for the whole domain. As a web developer, I only want to build to the security level my site needs, not the security needed for Microsoft logins.
    - kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
      They must own the .microsoft TLD.
  - technion 7y ago
    I'm having trouble digging it up now but at one point there was a domain associated with promoting Exchange 2003 that Microsoft let go of. It was still linked from all their docs but the new owner had it redirected to a Youtube with a fly fishing tutorial. Strangest hijack I've ever seen.
anoncake 7y ago
A less cross-platform version of Chrome. Just what the world was waiting for.
- qxcbr 7y ago
  I see it as a version of Blink (the fastest and most secure rendering engine there is) which is not controlled by Google. To me, it is something to consider.
  - anoncake 7y ago
    Blink is still controlled by Google. Microsoft doesn't control anything. They obviously don't control Google's Blink. They could fork it, but in that case they'd have to maintain a browser engine again. If Microsoft could/wanted to do that, they could have just stayed with the old IE Edge.
    - qxcbr 7y ago
      Since it's in their interests to have a browser installed on Windows by default, if Google did something wrong, they will definitely fork Blink. What alternative do they have?
      - anoncake 7y ago
        They have no alternative. Like everyone else, they're at the mercy of Google. It doesn't matter if it's in Microsoft interests to fork Blink, as that would require maintaining their fork. Which they can't. If Microsoft were able to maintain a browser engine, they would not be switching to Blink in the first place.
        qxcbr 7y ago
        There's a big difference between writing their own engine from scratch and forking Blink. For starters, even if they fork, they can still keep cherry-picking fixes and new features from Google's Blink. After all Webkit is under the GPL so they can't just close the source.
sys_64738 7y ago
Microsoft is making macOS cool again with some innovative software. Apple is still emoji king, though.
- Austin_Conlon 7y ago
  What Apple macOS apps would you consider to be lacking?
  - dvtrn 7y ago
    Mail.app, personally.
    - saagarjha 7y ago
      I love Mail.app and the fact that I can extend it with plugins. This is not true of most other main clients :(
      - dvtrn 7y ago
        My main issue has been rules failing to trigger rather consistently, maybe that's been fixed (as I just threw my hands up and went with Thunderbird years ago and it's filtering --not the greatest, but consistent which is where the value for me is)?
      - devcamcar 7y ago
        I recommend checking out Airmail. It's a huge improvement over Mail.app.
  - tssva 7y ago
    Mail, Maps, Safari, Messages, FaceTime, Photos
    - jorisw 7y ago
      I find all those apps to be outstanding. Except you can't beat Google Maps.
PascLeRasc 7y ago
[deleted]
- mythz 7y ago
  Traffic, ad views, analytics and $$$.
  - PascLeRasc 7y ago
    [deleted]
    - Acen 7y ago
      Their default home screen has news by default if you choose their "informational" style. Which includes advertisements as part of Microsoft News.
- tolmasky 7y ago
  If I get all the benefits of Chrome without weird Google ID stuff (and without having to download and/or build my own Chromium), then I'd use it. Might forget to switch the search engine to Google from Bing. Now they're making ad money. Regardless, if you want to take the browser market seriously, you need to be cross-platform. Especially if all the hard work of cross-platformness has already been done for you (as is probably the case with Chrome).
  - anoncake 7y ago
    > If I get all the benefits of Chrome without weird Google ID stuff You get weird Microsoft ID stuff instead.
gnicholas 7y ago
Downloaded this to see if my startup's Chrome extension is compatible. Looks like it is, which is good. But it is dog-slow compared to Brave. I cannot imagine switching to a browser that is anywhere near this sluggish.
- jmkni 7y ago
  I wonder if the preview build is un-optimised (ie built for debugging/testing) which makes it slower?
detaro 7y ago
Direct link to announcement this report is based on: https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2019/05/20/microsoft-edge-macos-canary-preview/ https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2019/05/20/microsoft-edg...
favorited 7y ago
Anyone know why you need to run an installer (with admin access)? Chrome is a plain-old .app which you can drag from a disk image... Is Edge installing shared frameworks or something? Quick edit: extracting the contents of the installer, it looks like maybe it wants to install the Office auto updater at the same time...
- _dev 7y ago
  It runs a bunch of pre and postinstall scripts, which seem to mainly be sending install telemetry to Microsoft: https://imgur.com/LbCd89v https://imgur.com/LbCd89v There's a `send_event` binary in the package which appears to post data to https://self.events.data.microsoft.com/OneCollector/1.0/ https://self.events.data.microsoft.com/OneCollector/1.0/
  - favorited 7y ago
    Well, now they have telemetry of me launching the installer, realizing that they don't give any context about what is being installed, and closing it...
- WorldMaker 7y ago
  Microsoft demoed the ability to install PWAs from Edge on macOS at BUILD, so maybe the installer is partly to prepare to support that?
- fnordsensei 7y ago
  I get that Dropbox needs an installer (it integrates with Finder etc). For a web browser, it seems a bit gratuitous. I'm holding off for now.
CDSlice 7y ago
Does this mean that they will start allowing add-ons in the Android app? If I can get a web browser for my Android that uses Chrome's engine and allows extensions I'll switch to it in a heartbeat. (And before someone replies with Kiwi, I personally am not comfortable using a (practically) closed source fork of mobile Chrome mantained by a single, unknown individual)
- bpye 7y ago
  Wondering why Firefox on Android isn't sufficient? I realise it's Gecko not Blink but for the most part it works well, for me at least.
  - CDSlice 7y ago
    It's OK, but it's been kind of glitchy and it sucks my battery up more than Chrome does by default. An ad blocker helps a lot and makes it better than Chrome, but I think something based off of Blink that allows uBlock Origin would be best. Plus Firefox on Android has been EOLed until Mozilla finishes their new Android browser rewrite.
  - CDSlice 7y ago
    Also, Firefox hasn't ever worked very well on my MacBook Pro, and I would really like to replace it with something else.
mark_l_watson 7y ago
Good for Microsoft for continuing to support multiple platforms. That said, unless they support Firefox style privacy containers, Edge is a no go for me. I will still use Safari on iOS, but for macOS and Linux I am all in for Firefox unless another browser supports container privacy isolation.
nailer 7y ago
Blogspam. Original URL: https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/en-us/download https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/en-us/download dang it would be good to get the title updated.

82 points by UkiahSmith 7y ago

merb 7y ago

I must say, I'm a little bit impressed. it's fast and has a lot of settings that are simple to understand and still looks to favor privacy. it can run Extensions from Microsoft and you can install additional extension stores (like google) with just a click. (of course not all extensions will work, like 1password+app didn't but 1password x, did)

SpikeDad 7y ago
Guess I don't see any reason for a 4th (and even more if you consider Chrome variants) browser to exist. It takes a lot to make me get off of Safari. About the only time I do is when I must have Flash for streaming services and then I use Chrome's integrated flash support. I guess if MS adds all of the proprietary features of Edge on Windows so that macOS users can run locked in Windows web apps that might be a highly attractive reason but it seems they're not going to be doing that. I'm wondering if they're using integrated Keychain support? I guess if it's build on Chromium perhaps not. Frankly for me that's a non starter.
- merb 7y ago
  > I'm wondering if they're using integrated Keychain support? ah sorry can't answer that, the first thing I did was checking out 1password. I mostly replace 1password as the password manager for my browsers.
- Acen 7y ago
  They don't support keychain for the individual sites (though it does use the keychain password like chrome to encrypt site logon credentials) but it does use it for application passwords. Like logging into Edge itself for the user data syncing.
  - stiGGG 7y ago
    AFAIK keychain access is only allowed for apps distributed through the Mac AppStore since a while. This is why Chrome removed the feature.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - SpikeDad 7y ago
      There's nothing in the developer section https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security that specifies this restriction. Maybe I couldn't find the reference. I'm pretty sure the Chrome folks removed it because they didn't think the Keychain was secure (at least from the readings I've done).
  - SpikeDad 7y ago
    That's not true at all. All macOS apps have full access to the Security framework in macOS including Keychain and keychain element management. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security
- alanh 7y ago
  the best reason for Edge/Mac to exist is simple: developers, developers, developers.
  - SpikeDad 7y ago
    Except Edge isn't a Mac-looking application. It starts with Chromium which isn't a standard Mac UI and gloms on plenty of stuff that's not Mac-like either. What's gonna be the advantage of using Edge over Chrome from a developer standpoint?

ZeroGravitas 7y ago

Does this include the IE11 mode or is that seperate and Windows only?

WorldMaker 7y ago
IE11 Mode hasn't even yet made into Windows Insider builds yet. Also, the assumption is that it would have to be Windows only because IE11 itself is (and likely always will be) Windows only.
jordache 7y ago
The fragmentation between Edge on Mac sans IE11 vs Edge on Windows w/ IE11 mode will be very confusing. How do you even market this? The whole point of IE11 is to ensure legacy IE compatible apps don't break. But then you can't advertise this with thought the huge caveat that it's a benefit on Edge Windows only.

piotrkubisa 7y ago

What is an idea of Edge on Mac? Is there any incentive to provide a browser that is available on other OS-es than Windows? Vivaldi and Opera went similar way, trying to cut some piece of browser market cake using a Blink engine and similar ecosystem as Chrome. Except Edge-only (i.e. Skype, Office365, Stadia-like platform) business game I don't see why it should cut in a market, especially in non-Windows operating systems.

blowski 7y ago
I’d guess you answered your own question - Edge-only apps. There are a lot of Microsoft-only IT environments now having to deal with Macs.
- anoncake 7y ago
  > Edge-only apps Still the Microsoft we know and love.
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    Does hangouts finally work on Firefox?
    - anoncake 7y ago
      I don't know, and if it does not, it still does not behave justify Microsoft's behaviour.
detaro 7y ago
Common management platform with Windows Edge for enterprises maybe? Things like per-domain security policies, accepted certificates, plugins/addons, ...
- detaro 7y ago
  Another angle is sync and same experience cross-platform.

blowski 7y ago

That domain name looks like a phishing attack waiting to happen.

qxcbr 7y ago
Right? If you asked me, I'd say that domain "microsoftedgeinsider.com" belongs to some Indian scamming call centre. For what reason have they purchased that domain instead of hosting it under microsoft.com ?
- anoncake 7y ago
  Buying a domain was easier than dealing with the MS department of subdomains of microsoft.com?
  - BlackRing 7y ago
    I would have believed that if it were HP. Snark aside, it is unusual behavior coming from Microsoft.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- londons_explore 7y ago
  Hosting things under microsoft.com is bad for security. One xss attack anywhere on the domain can steal cookies for the whole domain. As a web developer, I only want to build to the security level my site needs, not the security needed for Microsoft logins.
  - kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
    They must own the .microsoft TLD.
- technion 7y ago
  I'm having trouble digging it up now but at one point there was a domain associated with promoting Exchange 2003 that Microsoft let go of. It was still linked from all their docs but the new owner had it redirected to a Youtube with a fly fishing tutorial. Strangest hijack I've ever seen.

anoncake 7y ago

A less cross-platform version of Chrome. Just what the world was waiting for.

qxcbr 7y ago
I see it as a version of Blink (the fastest and most secure rendering engine there is) which is not controlled by Google. To me, it is something to consider.
- anoncake 7y ago
  Blink is still controlled by Google. Microsoft doesn't control anything. They obviously don't control Google's Blink. They could fork it, but in that case they'd have to maintain a browser engine again. If Microsoft could/wanted to do that, they could have just stayed with the old IE Edge.
  - qxcbr 7y ago
    Since it's in their interests to have a browser installed on Windows by default, if Google did something wrong, they will definitely fork Blink. What alternative do they have?
    - anoncake 7y ago
      They have no alternative. Like everyone else, they're at the mercy of Google. It doesn't matter if it's in Microsoft interests to fork Blink, as that would require maintaining their fork. Which they can't. If Microsoft were able to maintain a browser engine, they would not be switching to Blink in the first place.
      - qxcbr 7y ago
        There's a big difference between writing their own engine from scratch and forking Blink. For starters, even if they fork, they can still keep cherry-picking fixes and new features from Google's Blink. After all Webkit is under the GPL so they can't just close the source.

sys_64738 7y ago

Microsoft is making macOS cool again with some innovative software. Apple is still emoji king, though.

Austin_Conlon 7y ago
What Apple macOS apps would you consider to be lacking?
- dvtrn 7y ago
  Mail.app, personally.
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    I love Mail.app and the fact that I can extend it with plugins. This is not true of most other main clients :(
    - dvtrn 7y ago
      My main issue has been rules failing to trigger rather consistently, maybe that's been fixed (as I just threw my hands up and went with Thunderbird years ago and it's filtering --not the greatest, but consistent which is where the value for me is)?
    - devcamcar 7y ago
      I recommend checking out Airmail. It's a huge improvement over Mail.app.
- tssva 7y ago
  Mail, Maps, Safari, Messages, FaceTime, Photos
  - jorisw 7y ago
    I find all those apps to be outstanding. Except you can't beat Google Maps.

PascLeRasc 7y ago

[deleted]

mythz 7y ago
Traffic, ad views, analytics and $$$.
- PascLeRasc 7y ago
  [deleted]
  - Acen 7y ago
    Their default home screen has news by default if you choose their "informational" style. Which includes advertisements as part of Microsoft News.
tolmasky 7y ago
If I get all the benefits of Chrome without weird Google ID stuff (and without having to download and/or build my own Chromium), then I'd use it. Might forget to switch the search engine to Google from Bing. Now they're making ad money. Regardless, if you want to take the browser market seriously, you need to be cross-platform. Especially if all the hard work of cross-platformness has already been done for you (as is probably the case with Chrome).
- anoncake 7y ago
  > If I get all the benefits of Chrome without weird Google ID stuff You get weird Microsoft ID stuff instead.

gnicholas 7y ago

Downloaded this to see if my startup's Chrome extension is compatible. Looks like it is, which is good. But it is dog-slow compared to Brave. I cannot imagine switching to a browser that is anywhere near this sluggish.

jmkni 7y ago
I wonder if the preview build is un-optimised (ie built for debugging/testing) which makes it slower?

detaro 7y ago

Direct link to announcement this report is based on: https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2019/05/20/microsoft-edge-macos-canary-preview/ https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2019/05/20/microsoft-edg...

favorited 7y ago

Anyone know why you need to run an installer (with admin access)? Chrome is a plain-old .app which you can drag from a disk image... Is Edge installing shared frameworks or something? Quick edit: extracting the contents of the installer, it looks like maybe it wants to install the Office auto updater at the same time...

_dev 7y ago
It runs a bunch of pre and postinstall scripts, which seem to mainly be sending install telemetry to Microsoft: https://imgur.com/LbCd89v https://imgur.com/LbCd89v There's a `send_event` binary in the package which appears to post data to https://self.events.data.microsoft.com/OneCollector/1.0/ https://self.events.data.microsoft.com/OneCollector/1.0/
- favorited 7y ago
  Well, now they have telemetry of me launching the installer, realizing that they don't give any context about what is being installed, and closing it...
WorldMaker 7y ago
Microsoft demoed the ability to install PWAs from Edge on macOS at BUILD, so maybe the installer is partly to prepare to support that?
fnordsensei 7y ago
I get that Dropbox needs an installer (it integrates with Finder etc). For a web browser, it seems a bit gratuitous. I'm holding off for now.

CDSlice 7y ago

Does this mean that they will start allowing add-ons in the Android app? If I can get a web browser for my Android that uses Chrome's engine and allows extensions I'll switch to it in a heartbeat. (And before someone replies with Kiwi, I personally am not comfortable using a (practically) closed source fork of mobile Chrome mantained by a single, unknown individual)

bpye 7y ago
Wondering why Firefox on Android isn't sufficient? I realise it's Gecko not Blink but for the most part it works well, for me at least.
- CDSlice 7y ago
  It's OK, but it's been kind of glitchy and it sucks my battery up more than Chrome does by default. An ad blocker helps a lot and makes it better than Chrome, but I think something based off of Blink that allows uBlock Origin would be best. Plus Firefox on Android has been EOLed until Mozilla finishes their new Android browser rewrite.
- CDSlice 7y ago
  Also, Firefox hasn't ever worked very well on my MacBook Pro, and I would really like to replace it with something else.

mark_l_watson 7y ago

Good for Microsoft for continuing to support multiple platforms. That said, unless they support Firefox style privacy containers, Edge is a no go for me. I will still use Safari on iOS, but for macOS and Linux I am all in for Firefox unless another browser supports container privacy isolation.

nailer 7y ago

Blogspam. Original URL: https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/en-us/download https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/en-us/download dang it would be good to get the title updated.