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I would just laugh at Elon's crazy proclamations, but there are plenty of people buying Teslas who believe them. At this point, Musk's claims verge on the fraud

I would just laugh at Elon's crazy proclamations, but there are plenty of people buying Teslas who believe them. At this point, Musk's claims verge on the fraudulent. Fully autonomous driving is never coming to current Teslas, sorry folks. As for the frequent OTA software updates, I wouldn't consider that a feature. While it's true that at this point software is a critical piece of the puzzle and automakers who haven't woken up to the idea that owning your software is as important as any other aspect of the design may eventually be left behind. But I don't think Tesla offers a good model to emulate. As for JLG's specific points, providing a single, centralized method of updating automobile software over the Internet--or even a specialized wireless connection--should be seen as a security risk, not a powerful feature. Most critical systems in cars should be isolated from each other and from the Internet entirely. Updates should not be haphazardly distributed, but should be carefully tested and rolled out as rarely as possible and in a controlled manner. I have no hope that car companies will actually heed advice like this. But it's disappointing to see tech veterans buy into the delusion that the equivalent of Windows Update, but for your car, would be a good idea.

kitsunesoba 7y ago
To me the primary value of OTA updates like Tesla’s is that the dash systems won’t become worthless in a few years. I don’t own a car myself, but it always grates me just how bad and outdated the dash systems in cars even just a handful of years old are when taking ubers or riding with friends. It’s generally not found acceptable when major features of any other expensive purchase are phoned-in at best, so why is it tolerated with cars? At minimum, I think car manufacturers should decide on a dash platform standard and stick to it for at least a decade, making it possible to continue to properly update and support existing cars for a reasonable amount of time. Tesla isn’t doing anything special, it’s just a plain old off the shelf ARM SoC running a touch-optimized Ubuntu variant. Surely Toyota, GM, etc could figure this out? Barring that, they could save money and exclude built in dash functionality all together in favor of CarPlay and Android Auto, but that could be problematic for customers who don’t use smartphones.
fumar 7y ago
I don't own a Tesla. Can you provide evidence on why Elon's claims are fraudulent? I was thinking about a Tesla as my next car and would like to learn more. Do you know if the Tesla over the air updates are altering critical systems without diligent testing? I assume only Tesla engineers would have insight into this.
- pwinnski 7y ago
  OTA updates have had literally deadly consequences. There was an issue in which "autopilot" poorly recognized left-exits, including a particular one in California. It got some publicity and was fixed by an OTA update. Good! Except that a couple of months later another OTA update reverted whatever part of the "autopilot" model had learned not to drive straight into a concrete wall separating a left exit, and it killed someone. So yes, ML combined with OTA can certainly be dangerous, but Tesla fans will soon show up in droves to explain why that man's death is his fault, or the fault of anyone but Tesla. As far as fraudulent claims, Musk has repeatedly made statements related to self-driving that some people consider to be well beyond the pale of optimism, including promising that every Tesla sold after a certain would include all hardware needed for full self-driving, and then doing the same thing a few years later, apparently rendering the first statement factually false in retrospect. Musk has made many, many, many statements about timelines that have not worked out, and some that probably still won't work out, and some people label that fraudulent. I think it's just naïve, but as the CEO of a public-traded company, his naïveté is pretty stunning and has resulted in fines.
cowmix 7y ago
The OTA updates for car are more important that for any device IMHO. Phones are 'cheap' enough where you can upgrade every two years w/o breaking a sweat. Cars OTOH cost much more and getting software refreshes provides tons of value. Think about it, 2012 Teslas are STILL getting OTA software updates. How many devices do you own that are 6+ years old that are getting updates on a regular basis?
deleted 7y ago
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kitsunesoba 7y ago

To me the primary value of OTA updates like Tesla’s is that the dash systems won’t become worthless in a few years. I don’t own a car myself, but it always grates me just how bad and outdated the dash systems in cars even just a handful of years old are when taking ubers or riding with friends. It’s generally not found acceptable when major features of any other expensive purchase are phoned-in at best, so why is it tolerated with cars? At minimum, I think car manufacturers should decide on a dash platform standard and stick to it for at least a decade, making it possible to continue to properly update and support existing cars for a reasonable amount of time. Tesla isn’t doing anything special, it’s just a plain old off the shelf ARM SoC running a touch-optimized Ubuntu variant. Surely Toyota, GM, etc could figure this out? Barring that, they could save money and exclude built in dash functionality all together in favor of CarPlay and Android Auto, but that could be problematic for customers who don’t use smartphones.

fumar 7y ago

I don't own a Tesla. Can you provide evidence on why Elon's claims are fraudulent? I was thinking about a Tesla as my next car and would like to learn more. Do you know if the Tesla over the air updates are altering critical systems without diligent testing? I assume only Tesla engineers would have insight into this.

pwinnski 7y ago
OTA updates have had literally deadly consequences. There was an issue in which "autopilot" poorly recognized left-exits, including a particular one in California. It got some publicity and was fixed by an OTA update. Good! Except that a couple of months later another OTA update reverted whatever part of the "autopilot" model had learned not to drive straight into a concrete wall separating a left exit, and it killed someone. So yes, ML combined with OTA can certainly be dangerous, but Tesla fans will soon show up in droves to explain why that man's death is his fault, or the fault of anyone but Tesla. As far as fraudulent claims, Musk has repeatedly made statements related to self-driving that some people consider to be well beyond the pale of optimism, including promising that every Tesla sold after a certain would include all hardware needed for full self-driving, and then doing the same thing a few years later, apparently rendering the first statement factually false in retrospect. Musk has made many, many, many statements about timelines that have not worked out, and some that probably still won't work out, and some people label that fraudulent. I think it's just naïve, but as the CEO of a public-traded company, his naïveté is pretty stunning and has resulted in fines.

cowmix 7y ago

The OTA updates for car are more important that for any device IMHO. Phones are 'cheap' enough where you can upgrade every two years w/o breaking a sweat. Cars OTOH cost much more and getting software refreshes provides tons of value. Think about it, 2012 Teslas are STILL getting OTA software updates. How many devices do you own that are 6+ years old that are getting updates on a regular basis?

deleted 7y ago

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