3 ms·
Nothing new under the sun... MISRA C and Autosar were introduced around 1998, so we can also say standards for safe software are there for decades (around 2 dec
by ozim 7y ago
Nothing new under the sun... MISRA C and Autosar were introduced around 1998, so we can also say standards for safe software are there for decades (around 2 decades but always). You still get companies skipping best practices, guidlines, etc.
What is funny you get the same stuff in construction industry. Companies take shortcuts, architects take shortcuts and there are buildings, bridges collapsing.
I just don't like dichotomy "proper engineers, mechanical, construction", "kids in the fog, software devs". There are tons of reliable software, and tons of buildings that might collapse tomorrow because of wind/temperature/vibrations which never were considered by any builder or architect...
- AnimalMuppet 7y agoEven in the mechanical world, chicken coops aren't engineered to the same standards as skyscrapers. In software, we can build to skyscraper standards when we need to. But most of our software is done like we're building a chicken coop. And that's actually appropriate for some of it - your web app probably isn't the software equivalent of a skyscraper.
- ozim 7y agoI don't know how Boeing is doing their software but 737 Max is nowhere near chicken coop. I kind of believe they use something like MISRA. Article also is not saying anything about web applications. What I have seen on my own eyes was for example airport parking lot in Eindhoven which is also not a chicken coop: https://nltimes.nl/2017/09/25/eindhoven-airport-parking-garage-collapse-caused-construction-error-report https://nltimes.nl/2017/09/25/eindhoven-airport-parking-gara... On the other hand I have never seen collapsed chicken coop.
- carlmr 7y agoThe problem is that you can be nearly 100% Misra compliant and still have shit software. It takes away about 90% of the footguns you have in C and C++, but those 10% are just never going to be covered by a coding standard. Furthermore it's not only about using the worst language for safety in a corset. The disagreeing AoAs, the lack of a warning signal, the weird UI to disable Mcas. Nothing in MISRA or similar coding standards prevents these. It's good old common sense that you sadly can't teach (although you should maybe pay for a design course for your software developers). If not at least read the design of everyday things. Most of the design problems are the same that downed these two planes.
- kevin_thibedeau 7y agoI would hope they're using Ada.