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Personally I think Tesla business would get crushed if someone made really well designed plug-in hybrids. Most trips people take are under 30 miles. No need for

Personally I think Tesla business would get crushed if someone made really well designed plug-in hybrids. Most trips people take are under 30 miles. No need for a 70kWh, 350kg huge battery. Plug-in hybrids could be operated as full electric during short trips and the internal combustion engine could charge the battery when necessary. No doubt someone will immediately reply with a question: why would you want to change mechanical power, into electric, store it in battery, then change it into mechanic power again, when you can use ICE directly, or go full electric. I'll tell you why. Hybrids allow you all the same advantages as full electric car for short trips, and they are significantly more fuel efficient than normal ICE cars for long trips. All this in a package that can achieve 400+ miles of range and 5 minute recharge in a package that weights less than half of a comparable battery,it doesn't need to waste energy to be kept warm in winter and cold in summer nor it slowly deteriorates whether you use it or not. We have to have an honest conversation about disadvantages of battery powered electric cars. Everything that makes those cars cool - great torque of electric motors, mechanical simplicity, user interface can be replicated in a plug-in hybrid(sacrificing some of the simplicity as a hybrid needs either a fuel cell or an ICE to recharge). Then imagine buying a 10 year old Tesla model 3 economy, in a climate with -20deg C winters? Lets say you're left with 60% battery capacity, then you don't want to kill it completely so you don't let it go to complete 0 and you don't charge it to full capacity leaving you with perhaps 40%? Is this enough? To go to work and back, maybe, but what if you want to, or have to travel further once in a while? You can't using that car.

BoorishBears 7y ago
It already happened, the 2nd generation Volt was an excellent car and it just died. Which is a shame because it's the "35k Model 3" most people should have gotten
perardi 7y ago
We arguably have that in the Prius Prime, or had that in the recently discontinued Chevy Volt. I think the marketing and design is tough. So far, there really isn’t an electric car market in North America. There is a Tesla market—they sell well, but basically every other electric vehicle is sold at a substantial loss and in tiny volumes to satisfy various government mandates. In my opinion, people buy a Tesla because they are buying a Tesla, and then people can see you driving a Tesla. Same thing we saw with hybrids. There is a Prius market, because you are obviously driving a hybrid car with brand recognition, and otherwise nobody is buying the Honda Insight or hybrid Camry. And I think it’s tough to market, quickly, how a plug-in hybrid works. It is not the simplest drivetrain, and trying to explain to people when you have to plug it in and how to get the best electric mileage and yes the engine will run occasionally and yeah that’ll be weird when it kicks in...a pure electric car is just conceptually easier to understand.
pbreit 7y ago
"Just throw in an ICE" is your grand idea? That sounds like the argument folks were making to add a keyboard to iPhones. Perhaps you weren't aware that Teslas are holding 80%+ of their charges over 300k miles and are expected to double that performance with Maxwell technology?
- navigatesol 7y ago
  More talk about how good things will be for Tesla, one day. So many breakthrough techs around the corner! Amazing people still believe it.
- Roark66 7y ago
  "Just throw in an ICE" is your grand idea? That sounds like the argument folks were making to add a keyboard to iPhones. It is not "my grand idea". It is a good idea for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post period. Few actual cars that were and are good plug-in hybrids such as Chevy Volt and Prius Prime are(and in case of Volt were) getting way less publicity than they deserve. I recently heard Chevy Volt was the first hybrid that didn't just start an internal combustion engine when you pressed on the gas pedal too hard, but it let you drive in 100% electric mode until the internal battery discharged. Personally I think those cars fail to catch on due to the failure to market them properly.
thorwasdfasdf 7y ago
here in CA the cost of electricity is such that driving on electricity is roughly equivalent to 45mpg in cost. So, a hybrid like the prius can beat that: 60mpg
- davidgould 7y ago
  I’m in CA and have been driving electric since 2013. Electricity costs 13 cents per kWh, about 3 cents per mile. My last gas car, a Honda Fit, cost about 10 cents per mile (33 mpg @ $3.30). So it’s more like 100 mpg equivalent.

BoorishBears 7y ago

It already happened, the 2nd generation Volt was an excellent car and it just died. Which is a shame because it's the "35k Model 3" most people should have gotten

perardi 7y ago

We arguably have that in the Prius Prime, or had that in the recently discontinued Chevy Volt. I think the marketing and design is tough. So far, there really isn’t an electric car market in North America. There is a Tesla market—they sell well, but basically every other electric vehicle is sold at a substantial loss and in tiny volumes to satisfy various government mandates. In my opinion, people buy a Tesla because they are buying a Tesla, and then people can see you driving a Tesla. Same thing we saw with hybrids. There is a Prius market, because you are obviously driving a hybrid car with brand recognition, and otherwise nobody is buying the Honda Insight or hybrid Camry. And I think it’s tough to market, quickly, how a plug-in hybrid works. It is not the simplest drivetrain, and trying to explain to people when you have to plug it in and how to get the best electric mileage and yes the engine will run occasionally and yeah that’ll be weird when it kicks in...a pure electric car is just conceptually easier to understand.

pbreit 7y ago

"Just throw in an ICE" is your grand idea? That sounds like the argument folks were making to add a keyboard to iPhones. Perhaps you weren't aware that Teslas are holding 80%+ of their charges over 300k miles and are expected to double that performance with Maxwell technology?

navigatesol 7y ago
More talk about how good things will be for Tesla, one day. So many breakthrough techs around the corner! Amazing people still believe it.
Roark66 7y ago
"Just throw in an ICE" is your grand idea? That sounds like the argument folks were making to add a keyboard to iPhones. It is not "my grand idea". It is a good idea for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post period. Few actual cars that were and are good plug-in hybrids such as Chevy Volt and Prius Prime are(and in case of Volt were) getting way less publicity than they deserve. I recently heard Chevy Volt was the first hybrid that didn't just start an internal combustion engine when you pressed on the gas pedal too hard, but it let you drive in 100% electric mode until the internal battery discharged. Personally I think those cars fail to catch on due to the failure to market them properly.

thorwasdfasdf 7y ago

here in CA the cost of electricity is such that driving on electricity is roughly equivalent to 45mpg in cost. So, a hybrid like the prius can beat that: 60mpg

davidgould 7y ago
I’m in CA and have been driving electric since 2013. Electricity costs 13 cents per kWh, about 3 cents per mile. My last gas car, a Honda Fit, cost about 10 cents per mile (33 mpg @ $3.30). So it’s more like 100 mpg equivalent.