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When these services first introduced surge pricing, they told us that it was a good thing because it encourages more drivers to get on the road and take care of

When these services first introduced surge pricing, they told us that it was a good thing because it encourages more drivers to get on the road and take care of demand. It’s working exactly as designed.

bena 7y ago
The drivers are already there though. They've already committed to taking these passengers. Imagine walking up to a taxi and having them say "wait 5 minutes until I can charge you more".
- mikeash 7y ago
  They’re not in any way committed. Imagine waking up to a taxi and offering $10 to go somewhere, and they tell you no thanks but they’ll do it for $15. These drivers are just negotiating the price. The platform tries to block negotiation but it does not quite succeed.
  - bena 7y ago
    You think that's why taxis maybe have the regulations they do? You get in a taxi and you know the base rate and the metered rate. And taxis can't adjust the rate either. They don't get to argue and neither do you. The problem I have with this isn't that negotiation is happening, is that it's happening between the wrong parties.
    - mikeash 7y ago
      Taxi prices are regulated because negotiation was too difficult in the pre-smartphone era and taxi drivers would take advantage of information asymmetry to screw people. None of that applies here. The negotiation is happening between the drivers and passengers, which is how it should be. Uber and Lyft are acting as intermediaries, and are trying and failing to stop this negotiation.
      - eropple 7y ago
        Can you explain where you see a "negotiation" in this? (Don't get me wrong, I like the cut of your jib, it just seems to map better to a dysfunctional spread-based market.)
        mikeash 7y ago
        The drivers are offered a certain rate. They refuse, implicitly asking for a higher rate. This repeats until the drivers get a rate they can accept, or they give up and go home. On the other side, passengers are offered a certain rate. They can accept it, or they can refuse and implicitly ask for a lower rate.
        eropple 7y ago
        That seems less like a negotiation to me than a double-dealing bookmaker. ;)
    - eropple 7y ago
      There's no negotiation happening, though. You don't negotiate in a bid-ask market. "I want X for $Y." "I will give X for $Y." "Done." (And it functionally is a bid-ask market, though I'll acknowledge that it's made a bit messier by Uber and Lyft fiddling in internal-and-undocumented ways with the prices and offers that they quote.)
    - icebraining 7y ago
      Yeah, but as Uber and Lyft will tell you, they are not taxis.
- yifanl 7y ago
  ... If that was how their pay structure worked, how could you expect them NOT to ask you to wait 5 minutes?

bena 7y ago

The drivers are already there though. They've already committed to taking these passengers. Imagine walking up to a taxi and having them say "wait 5 minutes until I can charge you more".

mikeash 7y ago
They’re not in any way committed. Imagine waking up to a taxi and offering $10 to go somewhere, and they tell you no thanks but they’ll do it for $15. These drivers are just negotiating the price. The platform tries to block negotiation but it does not quite succeed.
- bena 7y ago
  You think that's why taxis maybe have the regulations they do? You get in a taxi and you know the base rate and the metered rate. And taxis can't adjust the rate either. They don't get to argue and neither do you. The problem I have with this isn't that negotiation is happening, is that it's happening between the wrong parties.
  - mikeash 7y ago
    Taxi prices are regulated because negotiation was too difficult in the pre-smartphone era and taxi drivers would take advantage of information asymmetry to screw people. None of that applies here. The negotiation is happening between the drivers and passengers, which is how it should be. Uber and Lyft are acting as intermediaries, and are trying and failing to stop this negotiation.
    - eropple 7y ago
      Can you explain where you see a "negotiation" in this? (Don't get me wrong, I like the cut of your jib, it just seems to map better to a dysfunctional spread-based market.)
      - mikeash 7y ago
        The drivers are offered a certain rate. They refuse, implicitly asking for a higher rate. This repeats until the drivers get a rate they can accept, or they give up and go home. On the other side, passengers are offered a certain rate. They can accept it, or they can refuse and implicitly ask for a lower rate.
        eropple 7y ago
        That seems less like a negotiation to me than a double-dealing bookmaker. ;)
  - eropple 7y ago
    There's no negotiation happening, though. You don't negotiate in a bid-ask market. "I want X for $Y." "I will give X for $Y." "Done." (And it functionally is a bid-ask market, though I'll acknowledge that it's made a bit messier by Uber and Lyft fiddling in internal-and-undocumented ways with the prices and offers that they quote.)
  - icebraining 7y ago
    Yeah, but as Uber and Lyft will tell you, they are not taxis.
yifanl 7y ago
... If that was how their pay structure worked, how could you expect them NOT to ask you to wait 5 minutes?