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Indeed. But those are the same people getting those $150k entry-level salaries from companies in the Bay Area. Even after paying down $50k/year in debt one wo

Indeed. But those are the same people getting those $150k entry-level salaries from companies in the Bay Area. Even after paying down $50k/year in debt one would be hard pressed to spend the rest of that without saving anything. You spend your college years sharing a house with 5 roommates, driving an $800 car and living on Costco pallets of canned chili. Keep that up for another few years after school while pulling down a dev salary and you'll be out of debt reasonably fast. Sadly, most people don't do that, and match their choice of new apartment and new car to exactly equal their new income. That's a shame, but it's also why I gave the advice I did above.

bumby 7y ago
It's probably not the best practice to base arguments on outliers or anomalies. Yes, these numbers may be true for the Bay Area but almost certainly not the norm. The argument unravels quickly if applied to other markets.
idlewords 7y ago
Some people have family to support. Eating all the canned chili in the world is not going to bring down your parents' medical bills. Your advice may work well for you, which is fine, but bakes in a lot of assumptions about social class, which is what we were just trying to avoid. To be young and debt-free and responsibility-free coming out of university is not everyone's lot.
6DM 7y ago
I started at $63k a year. My student loan payments were $1,200 a month. Apartments in my area started at $1,500 a month. Insurance is important to me for my health, and 401k for retirement. Would be nice if that cheap car I got would stop breaking down and failing emissions inspections... Gee, would be nice to not wake up on the floor because your crappy air mattress lost all the air in it during the night. There's no TV to watch because I didn't have one, so the list of basic things to buy is growing. The reality is, not everyone lives in California. Entry level salaries have certainly increased since I graduated, but they're still not $100k+. Advanced payments are hard to make when you're just getting started and have nothing to stand on. I'm not arguing that it's not possible, I'm only arguing that your imagination of how much money the average jr developer has to splash is not realistic.
acdha 7y ago
This is exactly faulty set of assumptions being challenged here. Not everyone gets that $150K offer, and that's increasingly true the further you are from a healthy white middle-class male. Not everyone wants to move to the Bay Area and unless you're a friendless orphan the further that move is, the more travel expenses you're taking on. Not everyone has family who are completely self-sufficient and will never need help. (Speaking personally from the “parents have never helped with rent; have helped parents with rent” club) Not everyone can find 5 roommates they're comfortable with, an $800 car at all much less one that runs perfectly with no maintenance costs as you're assuming. In reality, most people buy newer cars because it's better to have a fixed bill than deal with the missed work and random thousand-dollar service bills which you tend to get with $800 cars. Not everyone's health is compatible with living on canned chili and even if you don't have any long-term issues, you'll probably want to get some basic nutrition before you develop some. If this actually worked for you, great. All we're saying is that you should be less quick to forget that other people had it harder. I think that's especially true because when I think about the people who over-spent, they were never starting poor — they grew up comfortable and never had to worry about true disaster.

bumby 7y ago

It's probably not the best practice to base arguments on outliers or anomalies. Yes, these numbers may be true for the Bay Area but almost certainly not the norm. The argument unravels quickly if applied to other markets.

idlewords 7y ago

Some people have family to support. Eating all the canned chili in the world is not going to bring down your parents' medical bills. Your advice may work well for you, which is fine, but bakes in a lot of assumptions about social class, which is what we were just trying to avoid. To be young and debt-free and responsibility-free coming out of university is not everyone's lot.

6DM 7y ago

I started at $63k a year. My student loan payments were $1,200 a month. Apartments in my area started at $1,500 a month. Insurance is important to me for my health, and 401k for retirement. Would be nice if that cheap car I got would stop breaking down and failing emissions inspections... Gee, would be nice to not wake up on the floor because your crappy air mattress lost all the air in it during the night. There's no TV to watch because I didn't have one, so the list of basic things to buy is growing. The reality is, not everyone lives in California. Entry level salaries have certainly increased since I graduated, but they're still not $100k+. Advanced payments are hard to make when you're just getting started and have nothing to stand on. I'm not arguing that it's not possible, I'm only arguing that your imagination of how much money the average jr developer has to splash is not realistic.

acdha 7y ago

This is exactly faulty set of assumptions being challenged here. Not everyone gets that $150K offer, and that's increasingly true the further you are from a healthy white middle-class male. Not everyone wants to move to the Bay Area and unless you're a friendless orphan the further that move is, the more travel expenses you're taking on. Not everyone has family who are completely self-sufficient and will never need help. (Speaking personally from the “parents have never helped with rent; have helped parents with rent” club) Not everyone can find 5 roommates they're comfortable with, an $800 car at all much less one that runs perfectly with no maintenance costs as you're assuming. In reality, most people buy newer cars because it's better to have a fixed bill than deal with the missed work and random thousand-dollar service bills which you tend to get with $800 cars. Not everyone's health is compatible with living on canned chili and even if you don't have any long-term issues, you'll probably want to get some basic nutrition before you develop some. If this actually worked for you, great. All we're saying is that you should be less quick to forget that other people had it harder. I think that's especially true because when I think about the people who over-spent, they were never starting poor — they grew up comfortable and never had to worry about true disaster.