10 ms·

Earlier versions of systemd were fairly buggy, but then it was still in its infancy and its in a much better state now. systemd (not SystemD) changes a core pa

Earlier versions of systemd were fairly buggy, but then it was still in its infancy and its in a much better state now. systemd (not SystemD) changes a core part of the OS, we go from a userspace being bootstrapped by a bunch of different shell scripts calling a dozen individual binaries, to an actual system and service manager configured with unit files. It's a large change, although one other operating systems went through a decade earlier, and some people don't like change.

JohnFen 7y ago
> and some people don't like change. People really need to stop saying this rather than taking the time to actually understand what people are objecting to.
- sprash 7y ago
  I like change! I switched to runit and are not looking back.
yarrel 7y ago
By that standard SystemD proponents' fetishization of ineptly implemented change for change's sake clearly makes their position invalid.
- ripdog 7y ago
  Why on earth do systemd haters insist on capitalizing the D? It's really amazing how people think mistyping the name is some kind of useful or novel criticism of the software.
  - silversconfused 7y ago
    It's a classic joke. http://catb.org/jargon/html/S/studlycaps.html http://catb.org/jargon/html/S/studlycaps.html
  - teddyh 7y ago
    However juvenile, it is useful – as soon someone writes “SystemD”, I know that they’re either very inexperienced and don’t really know much, or they’re deliberately being spiteful and want to signal their hatred to other haters. Either way, I then know that I can safely ignore them completely, since they’re not part of a constructive conversation.
    - JdeBP 7y ago
      I've been pointing out that people do this, for some time. * https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2016/08/msg00547.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2016/08/msg00547.html * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14171389 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14171389
  - dane-pgp 7y ago
    I think that giving unflattering nicknames to powerful entities is a long-standing tradition, and a valid act of protest and free expression. Of course it won't convince an opponent, and it may backfire as a rhetorical device, but I empathise with people wanting to use it. Moreover, the term "System D" is somewhat synonymous with the term "black market", which Wikipedia defines as a: "series of transactions that has some aspect of illegality or is characterized by some form of noncompliant behavior with an institutional set of rules." That is a surprisingly good analogy for how systemd acts on a machine, but there is another analogy to a similarly worded term: "Substance D", from the novel "A Scanner Darkly". In the novel, it is described as an addictive psychoactive drug, also known as "Slow Death". Credit for that comparison goes to this foundational criticism of systemd: https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/8/12/459 https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/8/12/459
  - craigsmansion 7y ago
    the -d suffix is traditionally for service daemons. SystemD is not a service daemon. Lowercase is a UNIX convention. SystemD does not have a UNIX approach. Since SystemD is not a Unix service daemon it shouldn't be spelled "systemd" to prevent confusion.
    - eropple 7y ago
      This is...bizarre. Should I pejoratively call you "CRaIg" because I think you don't match up to my standards of what a Craig, or even a craig, is? Is that okay? I don't think it's okay. Names have meaning. It is a really minor bit of respect to use them correctly.
      - yellowapple 7y ago
        I think you replied to the wrong comment.
      - craigsmansion 7y ago
        I don't follow. As you state yourself, "names have meaning". By conventions the developers actively disregard, the meaning of the name "systemd" implies several things that the program is not.

JohnFen 7y ago

> and some people don't like change. People really need to stop saying this rather than taking the time to actually understand what people are objecting to.

sprash 7y ago
I like change! I switched to runit and are not looking back.

yarrel 7y ago

By that standard SystemD proponents' fetishization of ineptly implemented change for change's sake clearly makes their position invalid.

ripdog 7y ago
Why on earth do systemd haters insist on capitalizing the D? It's really amazing how people think mistyping the name is some kind of useful or novel criticism of the software.
- silversconfused 7y ago
  It's a classic joke. http://catb.org/jargon/html/S/studlycaps.html http://catb.org/jargon/html/S/studlycaps.html
- teddyh 7y ago
  However juvenile, it is useful – as soon someone writes “SystemD”, I know that they’re either very inexperienced and don’t really know much, or they’re deliberately being spiteful and want to signal their hatred to other haters. Either way, I then know that I can safely ignore them completely, since they’re not part of a constructive conversation.
  - JdeBP 7y ago
    I've been pointing out that people do this, for some time. * https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2016/08/msg00547.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2016/08/msg00547.html * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14171389 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14171389
- dane-pgp 7y ago
  I think that giving unflattering nicknames to powerful entities is a long-standing tradition, and a valid act of protest and free expression. Of course it won't convince an opponent, and it may backfire as a rhetorical device, but I empathise with people wanting to use it. Moreover, the term "System D" is somewhat synonymous with the term "black market", which Wikipedia defines as a: "series of transactions that has some aspect of illegality or is characterized by some form of noncompliant behavior with an institutional set of rules." That is a surprisingly good analogy for how systemd acts on a machine, but there is another analogy to a similarly worded term: "Substance D", from the novel "A Scanner Darkly". In the novel, it is described as an addictive psychoactive drug, also known as "Slow Death". Credit for that comparison goes to this foundational criticism of systemd: https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/8/12/459 https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/8/12/459
- craigsmansion 7y ago
  the -d suffix is traditionally for service daemons. SystemD is not a service daemon. Lowercase is a UNIX convention. SystemD does not have a UNIX approach. Since SystemD is not a Unix service daemon it shouldn't be spelled "systemd" to prevent confusion.
  - eropple 7y ago
    This is...bizarre. Should I pejoratively call you "CRaIg" because I think you don't match up to my standards of what a Craig, or even a craig, is? Is that okay? I don't think it's okay. Names have meaning. It is a really minor bit of respect to use them correctly.
    - yellowapple 7y ago
      I think you replied to the wrong comment.
    - craigsmansion 7y ago
      I don't follow. As you state yourself, "names have meaning". By conventions the developers actively disregard, the meaning of the name "systemd" implies several things that the program is not.