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I could get on board with this if the devs had a say in setting those benchmarks.

by dhimes 7y ago

jacobush 7y ago
Would they set reasonable benchmarks, like market share and revenue? That is what matters in strategy decisions.
- dhimes 7y ago
  Why would they set those benchmarks? Dev benchmarks are things like delivery schedules, development budget and capability trade-offs.
caymanjim 7y ago
Any good executive consults with their subordinates to create realistic objectives. This is so fundamental that it's implied. That's the CTO's job. They will in turn rely on their subordinates all the way down to the lowly developers. Are you suggesting that developers deserve some kind of vote? They're a cog in the machine. Sony isn't a democracy or a worker's collective. As a developer myself, I'm not trying to diminish the role. I like to think I can provide a valuable perspective and that I'd be consulted about my small part. I'm certain that's exactly what Sony did, because they are a successful, well-run company that's been doing this longer than I've been alive. Beyond that, no, the developers shouldn't have much say. Their role is to help determine what's required to achieve the objectives set by management. Good management will consult with them, set goals, and change tack if the objectives aren't met. If they still can't achieve the objectives in a timely and cost-effective way, management will replace them and go with a vendor. This is all right and good.
- dhimes 7y ago
  Are you suggesting that developers deserve some kind of vote? Of course not. Their role is to help determine what's required to achieve the objectives set by management. Good management will consult with them, set goals... This. Consider yourself lucky that you've never worked someplace that starts off with "These goals are aggressive, but in my mind achievable" and then proceeds to give you objectives that are a wildly optimistic extrapolation of a of a previously achieved timetable. This isn't just developers, either, but that's the context here. Any good executive consults with their subordinates to create realistic objectives. This is so fundamental that it's implied. ... I'm certain that's exactly what Sony did, because they are a successful, well-run company that's been doing this longer than I've been alive. If you're right them I'm onboard.
- boltzmann_brain 7y ago
  You're grossly overestimating executives and decision makers at the company. In my experience, vast majority of them are hacks and imbeciles, often very good at navigating company politics and not much else. And I'm talking about CTO level. The world is filled with terrible managers that ruin companies, and good developers are first to leave, because their input is ignored or they can sense the pointlessness of the situation and can afford to look for better opportunities. "consults with their subordinates to create realistic objectives" - in over 20 years of professional career I have yet to see this happen.

I could get on board with this if the devs had a say in setting those benchmarks.

by dhimes 7y ago

I could get on board with this if the devs had a say in setting those benchmarks.

jacobush 7y ago

Would they set reasonable benchmarks, like market share and revenue? That is what matters in strategy decisions.

dhimes 7y ago
Why would they set those benchmarks? Dev benchmarks are things like delivery schedules, development budget and capability trade-offs.

caymanjim 7y ago

Any good executive consults with their subordinates to create realistic objectives. This is so fundamental that it's implied. That's the CTO's job. They will in turn rely on their subordinates all the way down to the lowly developers. Are you suggesting that developers deserve some kind of vote? They're a cog in the machine. Sony isn't a democracy or a worker's collective. As a developer myself, I'm not trying to diminish the role. I like to think I can provide a valuable perspective and that I'd be consulted about my small part. I'm certain that's exactly what Sony did, because they are a successful, well-run company that's been doing this longer than I've been alive. Beyond that, no, the developers shouldn't have much say. Their role is to help determine what's required to achieve the objectives set by management. Good management will consult with them, set goals, and change tack if the objectives aren't met. If they still can't achieve the objectives in a timely and cost-effective way, management will replace them and go with a vendor. This is all right and good.

dhimes 7y ago
Are you suggesting that developers deserve some kind of vote? Of course not. Their role is to help determine what's required to achieve the objectives set by management. Good management will consult with them, set goals... This. Consider yourself lucky that you've never worked someplace that starts off with "These goals are aggressive, but in my mind achievable" and then proceeds to give you objectives that are a wildly optimistic extrapolation of a of a previously achieved timetable. This isn't just developers, either, but that's the context here. Any good executive consults with their subordinates to create realistic objectives. This is so fundamental that it's implied. ... I'm certain that's exactly what Sony did, because they are a successful, well-run company that's been doing this longer than I've been alive. If you're right them I'm onboard.
boltzmann_brain 7y ago
You're grossly overestimating executives and decision makers at the company. In my experience, vast majority of them are hacks and imbeciles, often very good at navigating company politics and not much else. And I'm talking about CTO level. The world is filled with terrible managers that ruin companies, and good developers are first to leave, because their input is ignored or they can sense the pointlessness of the situation and can afford to look for better opportunities. "consults with their subordinates to create realistic objectives" - in over 20 years of professional career I have yet to see this happen.