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> Could you mention which twelve kings you're referring to? Well, I'm obviously not much of a Bible scholar. It might also be that the text differs between the

by aasasd 7y ago

> Could you mention which twelve kings you're referring to? Well, I'm obviously not much of a Bible scholar. It might also be that the text differs between the Orthodox bible and English ones. IIRC Moses put up a camp near Sinai, or maybe it was at one of the many other camps. Kings of the twelve Israelite clans, or whatever they're called in English, brought their gifts to Moses: cattle, gold and silver dinnerware and such. My edition of the Bible gave an elaborate listing of the gifts of the first king, running for a full page at least. And then repeated it eleven more times, with each king having brought the exact same inventory. I've read through all the lists just to see if there's a surprise somewhere—nope! > The letters to the seven churches at the start of the book That's not all. The entire thing is considered to be an allusion to contemporary events, deliberately written in a more-or-less opaque style to ensure that the author's life doesn't end abruptly after dissemination. It would indeed show the things that would hopefully soon take place to those able to decipher the number of the beast—but afaik you didn't have to be a Judaist or a Christian to understand the message. Apparently the genre of apocalyptic revelations was popular at the time, and this book was masqueraded as one of those.

dane-pgp 7y ago
> Kings of the twelve Israelite clans, or whatever they're called in English, brought their gifts to Moses: cattle, gold and silver dinnerware and such. Thank you for clarifying. It seems the passage you're referring to is Numbers chapter 7: https://biblehub.com/esv/numbers/7.htm https://biblehub.com/esv/numbers/7.htm You're right that this does look a little odd as a narrative structure, but perhaps it's better to imagine this text as having an underlying 2 dimensional structure, like a spreadsheet or table. The tribes would go in the first column, and the subsequent row headings would be the categories of gifts, so that the body of the table would contain the individual numbers of items. Alternatively, one Biblical commentator (Matthew Henry) writes this of the repetition: "(1.) It was for the encouragement of these princes, and of their respective tribes, that each of their offerings being recorded at large no slight might seem to be put upon them; for rich and poor meet together before God. (2.) It was for the encouragement of all generous acts of piety and charity, by letting us know that what is so given is lent to the Lord, and he carefully records it, with every one’s name prefixed to his gift, because what is so given he will pay again, and even a cup of cold water shall have its reward." > The entire thing is considered to be an allusion to contemporary events I see what you mean. I think it is quite common for Biblical prophecy to have a short-term fulfilment and a long-term fulfilment, and sometimes they blur together. So even though the fantastical imagery would have provided an encoded message about the current situation to readers at the time, I think there are other layers to the vision which deal with grander themes and longer time scales. Bringing things full circle, it is perhaps interesting to note that the twelvefold repetition you mention is also present in the book of Revelation itself, in chapter 7 (coincidentally), where the number of sealed servants of God are listed, namely 12,000 from each tribe. The similarity between the giving of gifts from each tribe for the Tabernacle service, and God's elect being sealed, is presumably deliberate, although it is interesting that the order of the tribes is different between the two passages. https://biblehub.com/esv/revelation/7.htm https://biblehub.com/esv/revelation/7.htm

by aasasd 7y ago

dane-pgp 7y ago

> Kings of the twelve Israelite clans, or whatever they're called in English, brought their gifts to Moses: cattle, gold and silver dinnerware and such. Thank you for clarifying. It seems the passage you're referring to is Numbers chapter 7: https://biblehub.com/esv/numbers/7.htm https://biblehub.com/esv/numbers/7.htm You're right that this does look a little odd as a narrative structure, but perhaps it's better to imagine this text as having an underlying 2 dimensional structure, like a spreadsheet or table. The tribes would go in the first column, and the subsequent row headings would be the categories of gifts, so that the body of the table would contain the individual numbers of items. Alternatively, one Biblical commentator (Matthew Henry) writes this of the repetition: "(1.) It was for the encouragement of these princes, and of their respective tribes, that each of their offerings being recorded at large no slight might seem to be put upon them; for rich and poor meet together before God. (2.) It was for the encouragement of all generous acts of piety and charity, by letting us know that what is so given is lent to the Lord, and he carefully records it, with every one’s name prefixed to his gift, because what is so given he will pay again, and even a cup of cold water shall have its reward." > The entire thing is considered to be an allusion to contemporary events I see what you mean. I think it is quite common for Biblical prophecy to have a short-term fulfilment and a long-term fulfilment, and sometimes they blur together. So even though the fantastical imagery would have provided an encoded message about the current situation to readers at the time, I think there are other layers to the vision which deal with grander themes and longer time scales. Bringing things full circle, it is perhaps interesting to note that the twelvefold repetition you mention is also present in the book of Revelation itself, in chapter 7 (coincidentally), where the number of sealed servants of God are listed, namely 12,000 from each tribe. The similarity between the giving of gifts from each tribe for the Tabernacle service, and God's elect being sealed, is presumably deliberate, although it is interesting that the order of the tribes is different between the two passages. https://biblehub.com/esv/revelation/7.htm https://biblehub.com/esv/revelation/7.htm