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As the recent federal election clearly demonstrated, the proportion of Australians who 'hate the current leadership' is a lot smaller than previously imagined.

by porjo 7y ago

King-Aaron 7y ago
It needs to be more broadly look at than simply election results. We have had notoriously disingenuous governments which have mislead the broader voting population into believing flat-out lies when it comes to the environment, the economy, and the state of society in general. The fact that people voted in a certain direction is only evidence of a successful yet highly questionable marketing exercise.
- toasterlovin 7y ago
  Ah, yes, the old "the only way anybody could have voted for my political opponents is if they were duped or lied to". Do you realize that people have different political dispositions? And that there are valid positions on both sides of most issues?
  - King-Aaron 7y ago
    Please don't make assumptions over my particular leanings, it's a fairly high-level observation I was making. If you'd like to dispute that the last few governments in the last decade have been increasingly blatant with misleading the public, I'm all ears.
    - toasterlovin 7y ago
      So what if people were lied to? Is the government the citizenry's only source of information? Do they even trust the government? Are there not competing sources of information? What basis do you have for concluding that the Australian government has any significant ability to sway the opinion of its citizens?
      - King-Aaron 7y ago
        You're being directly obtuse, but to humour you: > So what if people were lied to? This is fairly serious when you consider that this is the entity which takes a portion of your working income as tax to provide services based on the needs of the community. If the policies which are decided on are based on a misinformed public opinion, then the services which are actually required (as opposed to being perceived as being required) are not delivered. > Is the government the citizenry's only source of information? Obviously not, but to claim that there is not a significant perception of truth in a lot of people's eyes when it comes to what a sitting government says is naive. > Do they even trust the government? See above, many do. > Are there not competing sources of information? This is a discussion in itself. The Murdoch groups own over two-thirds of the media outlets in this country (something like 64% according to a quick glance at wikipedia [1]). It is no small secret that this organisation has a lot of influence in Australia and has swayed public opinions previously on various topics, and there's a plethora of articles discussing this [2]. > What basis do you have for concluding that the Australian government has any significant ability to sway the opinion of its citizens? I'd put the onus of proof on you for this one, what makes you think that they do not? Governments spend tens of millions of dollars in prime-time advertising with the sole intention of sway opinions of citizens. This seems beyond ridiculous to me that you would want to make that point. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_of_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_of_Australia 2. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/sep/20/very-australian-coup-murdoch-turnbull-political-death-news-corps https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/sep/20/very-australia...
        toasterlovin 7y ago
        > I'd put the onus of proof on you for this one, what makes you think that they do not? Governments spend tens of millions of dollars in prime-time advertising with the sole intention of sway opinions of citizens. This seems beyond ridiculous to me that you would want to make that point. Look, your point is that the government lies to people and that this influences they way they vote. I’m sure that has some marginal effect. But here you are completely unaffected by these lies. So what’s the difference between you and somebody who votes differently? Is it that they are a hopeless rube who has been taken in? You seem to think so. But you have not demonstrated at all that it isn’t an alternative hypothesis which explains their different voting record. And the alternative hypothesis that I would put forward is that their different political leanings account for most of their different voting record. And that their lack of concern about the veracity of the information put out by the government is a result of these different political leanings, not its cause.

As the recent federal election clearly demonstrated, the proportion of Australians who 'hate the current leadership' is a lot smaller than previously imagined.

by porjo 7y ago

As the recent federal election clearly demonstrated, the proportion of Australians who 'hate the current leadership' is a lot smaller than previously imagined.

King-Aaron 7y ago

It needs to be more broadly look at than simply election results. We have had notoriously disingenuous governments which have mislead the broader voting population into believing flat-out lies when it comes to the environment, the economy, and the state of society in general. The fact that people voted in a certain direction is only evidence of a successful yet highly questionable marketing exercise.

toasterlovin 7y ago
Ah, yes, the old "the only way anybody could have voted for my political opponents is if they were duped or lied to". Do you realize that people have different political dispositions? And that there are valid positions on both sides of most issues?
- King-Aaron 7y ago
  Please don't make assumptions over my particular leanings, it's a fairly high-level observation I was making. If you'd like to dispute that the last few governments in the last decade have been increasingly blatant with misleading the public, I'm all ears.
  - toasterlovin 7y ago
    So what if people were lied to? Is the government the citizenry's only source of information? Do they even trust the government? Are there not competing sources of information? What basis do you have for concluding that the Australian government has any significant ability to sway the opinion of its citizens?
    - King-Aaron 7y ago
      You're being directly obtuse, but to humour you: > So what if people were lied to? This is fairly serious when you consider that this is the entity which takes a portion of your working income as tax to provide services based on the needs of the community. If the policies which are decided on are based on a misinformed public opinion, then the services which are actually required (as opposed to being perceived as being required) are not delivered. > Is the government the citizenry's only source of information? Obviously not, but to claim that there is not a significant perception of truth in a lot of people's eyes when it comes to what a sitting government says is naive. > Do they even trust the government? See above, many do. > Are there not competing sources of information? This is a discussion in itself. The Murdoch groups own over two-thirds of the media outlets in this country (something like 64% according to a quick glance at wikipedia [1]). It is no small secret that this organisation has a lot of influence in Australia and has swayed public opinions previously on various topics, and there's a plethora of articles discussing this [2]. > What basis do you have for concluding that the Australian government has any significant ability to sway the opinion of its citizens? I'd put the onus of proof on you for this one, what makes you think that they do not? Governments spend tens of millions of dollars in prime-time advertising with the sole intention of sway opinions of citizens. This seems beyond ridiculous to me that you would want to make that point. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_of_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_of_Australia 2. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/sep/20/very-australian-coup-murdoch-turnbull-political-death-news-corps https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/sep/20/very-australia...
      - toasterlovin 7y ago
        > I'd put the onus of proof on you for this one, what makes you think that they do not? Governments spend tens of millions of dollars in prime-time advertising with the sole intention of sway opinions of citizens. This seems beyond ridiculous to me that you would want to make that point. Look, your point is that the government lies to people and that this influences they way they vote. I’m sure that has some marginal effect. But here you are completely unaffected by these lies. So what’s the difference between you and somebody who votes differently? Is it that they are a hopeless rube who has been taken in? You seem to think so. But you have not demonstrated at all that it isn’t an alternative hypothesis which explains their different voting record. And the alternative hypothesis that I would put forward is that their different political leanings account for most of their different voting record. And that their lack of concern about the veracity of the information put out by the government is a result of these different political leanings, not its cause.