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I've been part of the group who got asked to give a DNA sample in the Nicky Verstappen [1] case. This was voluntarily, and I reluctantly did this (for [mostly e

by Fnoord 7y ago

I've been part of the group who got asked to give a DNA sample in the Nicky Verstappen [1] case. This was voluntarily, and I reluctantly did this (for [mostly ethical] reasons which would make this post very long), and had a good discussion about it with the 2 policemen who came to my house to take the sample. The technique used (family DNA) is the same in that case as in the topic we discuss. Now, I knew I didn't do it, and I knew it would be highly unlikely (but not impossible) that a male member of my family did this (not emotional but practical reasons: my uncle didn't quite live near the region, my father was almost blind and could barely walk, and my cousin was like 10 or so when this happened). So I didn't quite get the point. However, because I volunteered, the police could flag my entire family off the list of suspects. This narrowed the net around the perpetrator. Thanks to people like me, not to mention the hard work of hundreds of policemen, the case is now solved (or well, to be precise there's a suspect on trial; not yet a convict). Because there was a match with a family member of him. And as you can read at [1] the bird had flown cause it got too hot around him. I recently got a letter from the government that my DNA got destroyed. Whether you believe that letter or not is up to you; during my interview I had the chance to decide for it to be kept or destroyed after the case was final, and I went with the latter. I'd like to hope my choice is respected by my government. I get it though that with common law and in the USA you gotta be very careful when talking to the police but my experience in The Netherlands with the police has been positive or in some occurrences neutral at worst. Could be white male privilege though. YMMV. As for > If the host is the planet, what is the claim on the other guests to your body. On Earth's "body" the other guests are alive; you're dead. They can contribute to the future of planet earth and its inhabitants while your time is done for. So it makes sense that whatever is done with your remains and inheritance goes to the inhabitants, with a (slight) prejudice towards your direct ancestors (family). The good news is, our legal systems have law to provide for such as it is. As for the other inhabitants in your body, we're at the point where pets have a few rights whereas cattle and such have barely none. Lets not think about the rights of bacteria and parasites and such (they don't even have a CNS to begin with, and while their usefulness is up for debate, they're not exactly a dying breed). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Nicky_Verstappen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Nicky_Verstappen

conanbatt 7y ago
> I've been part of the group who got asked to give a DNA sample in the Nicky Verstappen [1] case. This was voluntarily, and I reluctantly did this Great story and thanks for sharing this. I want to answer why I think this is a bad idea however. First, I would talk to a legal defense attorney before doing this. A famous video about this topic is here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE. 1) The police might have told you it was for one case but it was for another, as the police can lie. 2) The DNA test itself might give a false positive on you or your family members, putting your family to a harsher scrutiny by the police that would have otherwise, and with more judicial justification. In the investigatory zeal they might find other lesser crimes they might want to prosecute just to not be empty handed. In the U.S., they might have charged a family member on a false positive with a ridiculously overblown crime. People have killed themselves over that prosecutorial technique (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz) 3) The police could fiddle with the samples and plant evidence if they thought you or someone else did it. (Steven Avery case) 4) The lab might fake results if they are in tandem with the DA (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/epic-drug-lab-scandal-results-more-20-000-convictions-dropped-n747891 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/epic-drug-lab-scandal-r...) You are gambling with your life and the life of your family members when you make that choice. And if you were so sure a family member of yours did not do it, then the police could have come to the same conclusion on their alibis and physical state of your family members. Even if you believe non of that is "likely to happen" there is a risk you are taking in exchange for a very small benefit (feeling good about assisting in a real investigation). And I assure you that if you had asked that, in exchange for the dna sample, your family and yourself have absolute criminal immunity for any case not related to the Nicky Verstappen, no DA would have signed off on that.
- Fnoord 7y ago
  Thanks for your interesting reply as well. I recommend Americans to read it thoroughly. > A famous video about this topic is here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE. Yes, I know that video. I've seen it more than once. Its very interesting, and I've seen other videos by ACLU on the matter as well. These videos though are all about the US of A which isn't the country where I live. All your examples are also from the USA. My comment is not about the USA (which kinda makes it off-topic in this thread). I can't comment about the legal system in the USA; I'm far too clueless about it. > 1) The police might have told you it was for one case but it was for another, as the police can lie. True, but I'm not afraid for such. I mean, of course I did a few naughty things in my youth (like running around with a replica plastic colt .45 which had these plastic arrows. I bought it when I was like 3 or 4 in Spain crickets) but there's also statute of limitations. I myself was part of the target group. And as much as I said it to be unlikely male family members were involved, I could not be sure. Now I am 100% sure. If the government wants to screw me over, they easily can. They easily can break in my house and plant some evidence in it, or on my computer. Locks aren't hard to pick, for starters. They can MITM my phone as well. What they cannot do is request my data at Facebook, cause I don't have such. I'm also a father. If my kid was raped and murdered when she was to be 12, I'd want to see the person who did this behind bars (well, if not something else, but lets not get into that, cause that's why its good that I am not the judge on my own case, and why it is good that we have a legal system). Not just for my partner or my loved ones or myself; I don't wish the pain I'd endure as a father on any parent. So I want this perpetrator to be stopped. Family DNA is very costly procedure, so the police only resort to it when all other leads have come to a dead end. I mean, to me, if I'd die today, that'd be less worse than seeing my (only) kid die. I had my father die a few years ago, I don't think I'll ever fully recuperate over that. But my child, my offspring, is -for me- almost the most important living organism on this planet. (Except for the planet itself.)

by Fnoord 7y ago

conanbatt 7y ago

> I've been part of the group who got asked to give a DNA sample in the Nicky Verstappen [1] case. This was voluntarily, and I reluctantly did this Great story and thanks for sharing this. I want to answer why I think this is a bad idea however. First, I would talk to a legal defense attorney before doing this. A famous video about this topic is here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE. 1) The police might have told you it was for one case but it was for another, as the police can lie. 2) The DNA test itself might give a false positive on you or your family members, putting your family to a harsher scrutiny by the police that would have otherwise, and with more judicial justification. In the investigatory zeal they might find other lesser crimes they might want to prosecute just to not be empty handed. In the U.S., they might have charged a family member on a false positive with a ridiculously overblown crime. People have killed themselves over that prosecutorial technique (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz) 3) The police could fiddle with the samples and plant evidence if they thought you or someone else did it. (Steven Avery case) 4) The lab might fake results if they are in tandem with the DA (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/epic-drug-lab-scandal-results-more-20-000-convictions-dropped-n747891 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/epic-drug-lab-scandal-r...) You are gambling with your life and the life of your family members when you make that choice. And if you were so sure a family member of yours did not do it, then the police could have come to the same conclusion on their alibis and physical state of your family members. Even if you believe non of that is "likely to happen" there is a risk you are taking in exchange for a very small benefit (feeling good about assisting in a real investigation). And I assure you that if you had asked that, in exchange for the dna sample, your family and yourself have absolute criminal immunity for any case not related to the Nicky Verstappen, no DA would have signed off on that.

Fnoord 7y ago
Thanks for your interesting reply as well. I recommend Americans to read it thoroughly. > A famous video about this topic is here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE. Yes, I know that video. I've seen it more than once. Its very interesting, and I've seen other videos by ACLU on the matter as well. These videos though are all about the US of A which isn't the country where I live. All your examples are also from the USA. My comment is not about the USA (which kinda makes it off-topic in this thread). I can't comment about the legal system in the USA; I'm far too clueless about it. > 1) The police might have told you it was for one case but it was for another, as the police can lie. True, but I'm not afraid for such. I mean, of course I did a few naughty things in my youth (like running around with a replica plastic colt .45 which had these plastic arrows. I bought it when I was like 3 or 4 in Spain crickets) but there's also statute of limitations. I myself was part of the target group. And as much as I said it to be unlikely male family members were involved, I could not be sure. Now I am 100% sure. If the government wants to screw me over, they easily can. They easily can break in my house and plant some evidence in it, or on my computer. Locks aren't hard to pick, for starters. They can MITM my phone as well. What they cannot do is request my data at Facebook, cause I don't have such. I'm also a father. If my kid was raped and murdered when she was to be 12, I'd want to see the person who did this behind bars (well, if not something else, but lets not get into that, cause that's why its good that I am not the judge on my own case, and why it is good that we have a legal system). Not just for my partner or my loved ones or myself; I don't wish the pain I'd endure as a father on any parent. So I want this perpetrator to be stopped. Family DNA is very costly procedure, so the police only resort to it when all other leads have come to a dead end. I mean, to me, if I'd die today, that'd be less worse than seeing my (only) kid die. I had my father die a few years ago, I don't think I'll ever fully recuperate over that. But my child, my offspring, is -for me- almost the most important living organism on this planet. (Except for the planet itself.)