6 ms·

The C64 Motherlode - Everything you need to learn how to code on the C64

25 points by iuguy 16y ago

iuguy 16y ago
I thought I'd post this as the C64 was one of the most popular 8 bits of all time. No doubt many HN'ers are familiar with it, perhaps a few aren't. The site linked is fairlight, an awesome old school demo group from back in the c64's (and Amiga's) heyday. The documents on the site are pretty much everything you need to get started, and the examples (last link at the bottom) are great at getting you up to speed on some common effects. The best thing about this is that in learning how to code on the 64 you'll learn MOS 6502 assembly, which also enables you to get a head start on programming the Atari 8-bit computers and the consoles (2600 etc.) and the Apple I & II. If you're looking for a weekend (or two) project, then you could do a lot worse than this. So HN, what can you do with 64k of RAM and 1 Mhz CPU?
- listic 16y ago
  How do I get to those examples? It prompts for a password.
sizzla 16y ago
Mad props for posting this. Fairlight - when dreams come true These guys actually wrote their own linkers, assemblers, monitors, etc. when they were barely teenagers. http://www.c64.com/scene_display_interview.php?interview=181 http://www.c64.com/scene_display_interview.php?interview=181
Luc 16y ago
Another fun way to learn is to run games and demo's in WinVICE, accompanied by the ICU64 visualiser ( http://icu64.blogspot.com/ http://icu64.blogspot.com/ ). It allows you to narrow down where in memory code is running and what it is doing, in a fun, visual way. I taught myself C64 programming by examining other people's code and figuring it out (and sometimes copying it, too). It's a lot easier to do this with ICU64.
zandorg 16y ago
I've written a decompiler with a custom template for the 6502 (the idea is all CPUs are fundamentally the same, from x86 to 6502, so you just define a CPU as instructions affecting flags, etc, and have custom functions for, eg., Vax CPUs). So I reverse engineer a C64 game by first decompiling the assembly code into vanilla C, without any definitions or names. Then I do things like make the emulator refuse to write to an address I'm curious about. Then I can see what the address does, and make a definition (a name!) for that address. What you get in the end is C-like code with all your definitions making it readable as the original source code. The only problem I'm having is a really robust flow-control system - JMPs can get hard to parse if they're crazy. But other than that, RightBack is a great decompiler. It's also written in Common Lisp.
- sizzla 16y ago
  That sounds impressive. A lot of really impressive C64 code is timing sensitive. The coder counts exact number of cycle a piece of code takes and attempts to, for example, synchronize it to the CRT rasterbeam, because the horizontal and vertical refresh frequency are known and because there is a VBL interrupt. So for example you change the background color at just the right time as the rasterbeam renders the screen to get a rainbow. Similar stuff is done with quickly changing sprites so that you can get way above the, I don't know, 8 or so sprites that are supposed to be the max possible to do in hardware. You would lose insight into this by converting the code to C.
  - zandorg 16y ago
    However, it would be useful for the higher-level logic - like a print function. You decompile calls to this function, no matter how the function works.
narrator 16y ago
Somebody should make a smart phone that is based on the c64. At least nobody will be able to sue them for patent infringement. ;)
humanracist 16y ago
Do any of the links on that site work?
- woodgears 16y ago
  I do find it amazing how people comment on it, yet none of the links work. Does anybody actually bother to even check out the site. The only thing that works is the front page!
  - sizzla 16y ago
    Actually the only thing I checked is the original content (tools) and examples. All of those work. I fixed up the rest of the links (see my comment elsewhere on this page).
- z303 16y ago
  Puterman's An Introduction to Programming C-64 Demos is available here http://www.antimon.org/code/Linus/ http://www.antimon.org/code/Linus/
hackermom 16y ago
Bacchus/FLT (alias of the person maintaining that site) hasn't touched anything there in lord knows how long. For those still interested in more accurate information, check out http://codebase64.org/ http://codebase64.org/ and for those who wish to speak to the majority of what is currently left of the "C64 Scene", head over to http://csdb.c64.org/ http://csdb.c64.org/ or drop by in #c-64 on IRCnet.
sizzla 16y ago
BTW my recommendation is to take a look at a 21st century file not on the page first: 25C3: Everything about the C64 in 64 minutes: http://chaosradio.ccc.de/25c3_m4v_2874.html http://chaosradio.ccc.de/25c3_m4v_2874.html OK, fixing the links by typing the basenames into Google. I better see some HN C64 intros. Emulator FAQ - works: http://www.fairlight.to/docs/faq.html http://www.fairlight.to/docs/faq.html Beginners guide to emulators - broken, get VICE or Frodo and be done with it C64 Memory Map - http://www.pulia.nu/doc/c64/Docs/Misc/C64/Misc/c64-memorymap.html http://www.pulia.nu/doc/c64/Docs/Misc/C64/Misc/c64-memorymap... C64 I/O map - http://www.pulia.nu/doc/c64/Docs/Misc/C64/Misc/c64-io.html http://www.pulia.nu/doc/c64/Docs/Misc/C64/Misc/c64-io.html C64 RAM map - http://www.pulia.nu/doc/c64/Docs/Misc/C64/Misc/c64-ram.html http://www.pulia.nu/doc/c64/Docs/Misc/C64/Misc/c64-ram.html C64 ROM map - http://www.pulia.nu/doc/c64/Docs/Misc/C64/Misc/c64-rom.html http://www.pulia.nu/doc/c64/Docs/Misc/C64/Misc/c64-rom.html C64 Kernal ROM version description - you dont need this yet C64 ROM disassembly - http://www.ffd2.com/fridge/docs/c64-diss.html http://www.ffd2.com/fridge/docs/c64-diss.html All about your 64 - http://www.the-dreams.de/aay.html http://www.the-dreams.de/aay.html REU Programming - http://codebase64.org/doku.php?id=base:reu_programming http://codebase64.org/doku.php?id=base:reu_programming REU Registers - http://codebase64.org/doku.php?id=base:reu_registers http://codebase64.org/doku.php?id=base:reu_registers 1541 ROM dissassembly - http://www.ffd2.com/fridge/docs/1541dis.html http://www.ffd2.com/fridge/docs/1541dis.html C64 User's Guide - http://project64.c64.org/hw/c64usg10.zip http://project64.c64.org/hw/c64usg10.zip C64 Programer's Reference Guide - http://project64.c64.org/hw/c64prg10.zip http://project64.c64.org/hw/c64prg10.zip Mapping the C64 - http://www.oocities.com/white-flame/files/c64/mapthe64.zip http://www.oocities.com/white-flame/files/c64/mapthe64.zip VIC docs - works: http://www.fairlight.to/docs/text/vic.txt http://www.fairlight.to/docs/text/vic.txt Formats - works: http://www.fairlight.to/docs/text/formats.zip http://www.fairlight.to/docs/text/formats.zip Tools - all links work: Manuals for Omikron Turbo Assembler, etc: links work: http://www.fairlight.to/docs/text/xass33.html http://www.fairlight.to/docs/text/xass33.html Elysium's code examples - works: ftp://ftp.elysium.pl/gnu-generation/ C64 ML Tutorials - ftp://ftp.padua.org/pub/c64/Docs/ml-tutorial.zip
- humanracist 16y ago
  Thanks for this! There's the nostalgia I was looking for ;)

25 points by iuguy 16y ago

iuguy 16y ago

I thought I'd post this as the C64 was one of the most popular 8 bits of all time. No doubt many HN'ers are familiar with it, perhaps a few aren't. The site linked is fairlight, an awesome old school demo group from back in the c64's (and Amiga's) heyday. The documents on the site are pretty much everything you need to get started, and the examples (last link at the bottom) are great at getting you up to speed on some common effects. The best thing about this is that in learning how to code on the 64 you'll learn MOS 6502 assembly, which also enables you to get a head start on programming the Atari 8-bit computers and the consoles (2600 etc.) and the Apple I & II. If you're looking for a weekend (or two) project, then you could do a lot worse than this. So HN, what can you do with 64k of RAM and 1 Mhz CPU?

listic 16y ago
How do I get to those examples? It prompts for a password.

sizzla 16y ago

Mad props for posting this. Fairlight - when dreams come true These guys actually wrote their own linkers, assemblers, monitors, etc. when they were barely teenagers. http://www.c64.com/scene_display_interview.php?interview=181 http://www.c64.com/scene_display_interview.php?interview=181

Luc 16y ago

Another fun way to learn is to run games and demo's in WinVICE, accompanied by the ICU64 visualiser ( http://icu64.blogspot.com/ http://icu64.blogspot.com/ ). It allows you to narrow down where in memory code is running and what it is doing, in a fun, visual way. I taught myself C64 programming by examining other people's code and figuring it out (and sometimes copying it, too). It's a lot easier to do this with ICU64.

zandorg 16y ago

I've written a decompiler with a custom template for the 6502 (the idea is all CPUs are fundamentally the same, from x86 to 6502, so you just define a CPU as instructions affecting flags, etc, and have custom functions for, eg., Vax CPUs). So I reverse engineer a C64 game by first decompiling the assembly code into vanilla C, without any definitions or names. Then I do things like make the emulator refuse to write to an address I'm curious about. Then I can see what the address does, and make a definition (a name!) for that address. What you get in the end is C-like code with all your definitions making it readable as the original source code. The only problem I'm having is a really robust flow-control system - JMPs can get hard to parse if they're crazy. But other than that, RightBack is a great decompiler. It's also written in Common Lisp.

sizzla 16y ago
That sounds impressive. A lot of really impressive C64 code is timing sensitive. The coder counts exact number of cycle a piece of code takes and attempts to, for example, synchronize it to the CRT rasterbeam, because the horizontal and vertical refresh frequency are known and because there is a VBL interrupt. So for example you change the background color at just the right time as the rasterbeam renders the screen to get a rainbow. Similar stuff is done with quickly changing sprites so that you can get way above the, I don't know, 8 or so sprites that are supposed to be the max possible to do in hardware. You would lose insight into this by converting the code to C.
- zandorg 16y ago
  However, it would be useful for the higher-level logic - like a print function. You decompile calls to this function, no matter how the function works.

narrator 16y ago

Somebody should make a smart phone that is based on the c64. At least nobody will be able to sue them for patent infringement. ;)

humanracist 16y ago

Do any of the links on that site work?

woodgears 16y ago
I do find it amazing how people comment on it, yet none of the links work. Does anybody actually bother to even check out the site. The only thing that works is the front page!
- sizzla 16y ago
  Actually the only thing I checked is the original content (tools) and examples. All of those work. I fixed up the rest of the links (see my comment elsewhere on this page).
z303 16y ago
Puterman's An Introduction to Programming C-64 Demos is available here http://www.antimon.org/code/Linus/ http://www.antimon.org/code/Linus/

hackermom 16y ago

Bacchus/FLT (alias of the person maintaining that site) hasn't touched anything there in lord knows how long. For those still interested in more accurate information, check out http://codebase64.org/ http://codebase64.org/ and for those who wish to speak to the majority of what is currently left of the "C64 Scene", head over to http://csdb.c64.org/ http://csdb.c64.org/ or drop by in #c-64 on IRCnet.

sizzla 16y ago

BTW my recommendation is to take a look at a 21st century file not on the page first: 25C3: Everything about the C64 in 64 minutes: http://chaosradio.ccc.de/25c3_m4v_2874.html http://chaosradio.ccc.de/25c3_m4v_2874.html OK, fixing the links by typing the basenames into Google. I better see some HN C64 intros. Emulator FAQ - works: http://www.fairlight.to/docs/faq.html http://www.fairlight.to/docs/faq.html Beginners guide to emulators - broken, get VICE or Frodo and be done with it C64 Memory Map - http://www.pulia.nu/doc/c64/Docs/Misc/C64/Misc/c64-memorymap.html http://www.pulia.nu/doc/c64/Docs/Misc/C64/Misc/c64-memorymap... C64 I/O map - http://www.pulia.nu/doc/c64/Docs/Misc/C64/Misc/c64-io.html http://www.pulia.nu/doc/c64/Docs/Misc/C64/Misc/c64-io.html C64 RAM map - http://www.pulia.nu/doc/c64/Docs/Misc/C64/Misc/c64-ram.html http://www.pulia.nu/doc/c64/Docs/Misc/C64/Misc/c64-ram.html C64 ROM map - http://www.pulia.nu/doc/c64/Docs/Misc/C64/Misc/c64-rom.html http://www.pulia.nu/doc/c64/Docs/Misc/C64/Misc/c64-rom.html C64 Kernal ROM version description - you dont need this yet C64 ROM disassembly - http://www.ffd2.com/fridge/docs/c64-diss.html http://www.ffd2.com/fridge/docs/c64-diss.html All about your 64 - http://www.the-dreams.de/aay.html http://www.the-dreams.de/aay.html REU Programming - http://codebase64.org/doku.php?id=base:reu_programming http://codebase64.org/doku.php?id=base:reu_programming REU Registers - http://codebase64.org/doku.php?id=base:reu_registers http://codebase64.org/doku.php?id=base:reu_registers 1541 ROM dissassembly - http://www.ffd2.com/fridge/docs/1541dis.html http://www.ffd2.com/fridge/docs/1541dis.html C64 User's Guide - http://project64.c64.org/hw/c64usg10.zip http://project64.c64.org/hw/c64usg10.zip C64 Programer's Reference Guide - http://project64.c64.org/hw/c64prg10.zip http://project64.c64.org/hw/c64prg10.zip Mapping the C64 - http://www.oocities.com/white-flame/files/c64/mapthe64.zip http://www.oocities.com/white-flame/files/c64/mapthe64.zip VIC docs - works: http://www.fairlight.to/docs/text/vic.txt http://www.fairlight.to/docs/text/vic.txt Formats - works: http://www.fairlight.to/docs/text/formats.zip http://www.fairlight.to/docs/text/formats.zip Tools - all links work: Manuals for Omikron Turbo Assembler, etc: links work: http://www.fairlight.to/docs/text/xass33.html http://www.fairlight.to/docs/text/xass33.html Elysium's code examples - works: ftp://ftp.elysium.pl/gnu-generation/ C64 ML Tutorials - ftp://ftp.padua.org/pub/c64/Docs/ml-tutorial.zip

humanracist 16y ago
Thanks for this! There's the nostalgia I was looking for ;)