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> It must be said, again and again: corporations exist at the sufferance of the society that grants them their charter and only exist for the benefit of that so

> It must be said, again and again: corporations exist at the sufferance of the society that grants them their charter and only exist for the benefit of that society. I'm assuming you're talking about the US. We are not subjects of our government, or of some other sovereign, whether that be society or anything else. Our society is founded on individual pursuit of happiness, not collectivism. Put another way, corporations exist for whatever reason their creators decide. So long as they operate within the law and are able to sustain themselves, societal good is a side effect and a concern of the State, not the corporation itself.

nmcfarl 7y ago
The state licenses corporations. Corporations exist for whatever reason their creators and the state decide on.
- nmcfarl 7y ago
  Continuing I live in the US, and sit on the the board of a governmental organization, a nonprofit corporation and an LLC. It is incredibly obvious from this perspective that the regulations the state chooses to apply greatly constrain what it is possible for your organization to do. And this goes beyond the day to day all the way up to the mission of the org. The state definitely has a large influence on weather organizations exists, their form and the reasons for which and methods they operate.
eropple 7y ago
"Corporations exist for whatever reason their creators decide" - the state is the creator of a corporation! They don't just spring out of nowhere. Corporate entities, LLCs, etc. exist literally because the government in whose territory they operate grant them a charter that allows them to enter contracts and make agreements independent of the personal liability of the owners. That government can revoke that charter (and it has happened in American history--it's not a theoretical thing, it is real and an extant power (one that goes unused, but extant nonetheless). We, as the actual owners of that government that grants this special exception, can--and should--expect better than the barest bare minimum out of such fictional persons if they want to keep their fictional personhood. This is a transaction: "we grant you the right to operate a fictional person and you don't act like shitheads in our society." We don't do this, largely because of the weird little melty fears that led to you going off about collectivism when it doesn't apply here except insofar that labor participation can encourage, though does not guarantee, better behavior. But we can, and we should, keep this tool at the ready because corporate entities will be good citizens only so long as you keep the proverbial fist of an angry god ready to strike; sociopaths (and your standard corporation is a sociopath by definition) only, only, respect consequences and so those consequences must be severe and always at the ready. A careful reader might note that I said nothing about such companies operating as unlimited-liability partnerships. Because yes, fair is fair, and people (who, unlike fictive entities, have rights and freedoms even if the results of those rights and freedoms suck) have the right to do as they please so long as they aren't harming other people. But they wouldn't take that option and we all know why.

nmcfarl 7y ago

The state licenses corporations. Corporations exist for whatever reason their creators and the state decide on.

nmcfarl 7y ago
Continuing I live in the US, and sit on the the board of a governmental organization, a nonprofit corporation and an LLC. It is incredibly obvious from this perspective that the regulations the state chooses to apply greatly constrain what it is possible for your organization to do. And this goes beyond the day to day all the way up to the mission of the org. The state definitely has a large influence on weather organizations exists, their form and the reasons for which and methods they operate.

eropple 7y ago

"Corporations exist for whatever reason their creators decide" - the state is the creator of a corporation! They don't just spring out of nowhere. Corporate entities, LLCs, etc. exist literally because the government in whose territory they operate grant them a charter that allows them to enter contracts and make agreements independent of the personal liability of the owners. That government can revoke that charter (and it has happened in American history--it's not a theoretical thing, it is real and an extant power (one that goes unused, but extant nonetheless). We, as the actual owners of that government that grants this special exception, can--and should--expect better than the barest bare minimum out of such fictional persons if they want to keep their fictional personhood. This is a transaction: "we grant you the right to operate a fictional person and you don't act like shitheads in our society." We don't do this, largely because of the weird little melty fears that led to you going off about collectivism when it doesn't apply here except insofar that labor participation can encourage, though does not guarantee, better behavior. But we can, and we should, keep this tool at the ready because corporate entities will be good citizens only so long as you keep the proverbial fist of an angry god ready to strike; sociopaths (and your standard corporation is a sociopath by definition) only, only, respect consequences and so those consequences must be severe and always at the ready. A careful reader might note that I said nothing about such companies operating as unlimited-liability partnerships. Because yes, fair is fair, and people (who, unlike fictive entities, have rights and freedoms even if the results of those rights and freedoms suck) have the right to do as they please so long as they aren't harming other people. But they wouldn't take that option and we all know why.