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I've seen this same satire about Google multiple times on HN, and have made the same point before myself; I'm curious how many Google employees understand why m

I've seen this same satire about Google multiple times on HN, and have made the same point before myself; I'm curious how many Google employees understand why more and more people are seeing Google's product lines as a joke in that sense. Google makes working software and devices, but does anyone feel like they can count on Google for anything? It seems like few do at this point, and it's mystifying that the higher ups at Google don't seem interested in addressing that perception unless enough people complain, despite the dissatisfaction being totally predictable. I really wonder whether, if someone with any clout at Google read your comment, they would get the joke or not understand.

pjmlp 7y ago
I gave up on native Android, because every year the best practices get rebooted, they don't give a dam about future Java compatibility (Java 8+) and after 10 years, NDK is still WIP. One example, the whole story with fragments, then now that they finally have a good story with constraint layout, after three years in the making, they are introducing a Kotlin based DSL. At least the Chrome team gets a solid story with their PWAs, also supported by other vendors.
- iamtheworstdev 7y ago
  Can you blame them about abandoning Java thanks to Oracle?
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    They don't have anyone to blame but themselves. First they screw Sun and then don't bother to buy Sun's assets when given the opportunity. Lots of third party JVM vendors are able to deliver improvements into the Java world, while staying in peace with Sun, now Oracle. Google being the exception. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Java_virtual_machines https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Java_virtual_machine... The Java community doesn't need Android J++.
    - erikpukinskis 7y ago
      Can you imagine being in a bidding war with Larry Ellison? Talk about a lose/lose... Either he outbids you and then had the legal right to fuck with you for decades Or he bids you up to some ungodly number, and you have to live with the fact that Larry Ellison forced you to burn billions of dollars for his personal gratification. Either way, you just feel dirty.
      - sbov 7y ago
        They're a multi billion dollar international conglomerate not a 10 person startup. Their primary business model involves tracking everything you do and everywhere you go. They're already dirty as shit.
      - pjmlp 7y ago
        Apparently they saved money going to trial.
stingraycharles 7y ago
My assumption has always been that the Google employees that read HN understand and even agree with this sentiment, but do not have the (political) power to actually influence this process. I’ve understood this to be a pretty fundamental cultural thing with Google, where people are more likely to get promoted for shipping something new (rather than improving something that already exists). If this is indeed the case, it’s likely not something that a few employees reading HN can solve, but rather needs a big shift in process from the very top of the organization.
- jakear 7y ago
  I am in contact with several googlers, and I’ve asked if they were aware of google’s reputation, and if it had impacted them directly. All said that they knew people perceived google as shutting down products often, but their own projects had never been shut down. They also said that google upper management was aware of it, and “was doing something about it”.
  - bscphil 7y ago
    >but their own projects had never been shut down. Ironically this agrees pretty well with what your parent comment said: > the Google employees that read HN understand and even agree with this sentiment ... people are more likely to get promoted for shipping something new (rather than improving something that already exists) If the Google elite like your product, it gets integrated into everything and you get promoted. You probably stay at Google long term. If your products are the ones that get cut, are you likely to be a long term Googler? Google is an exercise in selection bias for a group of people who don't understand supporting a product long-term.
    - lrem 7y ago
      I understand both supporting a product long-term and selection bias. I also intend to be a long-term Googler, despite having been struck twice by leadership deciding my team no longer fits their picture, no matter the technical merit. Also: you can get promoted for a cancelled project, unless you're at the level where keeping the VP from cancelling it is within your duties.
craftinator 7y ago
Yes, of course we can count on Google to deliver good keyword search results based on specific quer... okay, semantically based search results that interpret what I'm actually looking fo... what the hell is AMP and where are my search resu... What is this carousel and where are my damn search results?
pjc50 7y ago
> mystifying that the higher ups at Google don't seem interested in addressing that perception unless enough people complain, despite the dissatisfaction being totally predictable. See the other thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19952069 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19952069 In which some of the commentators seem to be arguing that openly expressing your opinion on Google's product strategy is treason, or at the very least above your pay grade.
NeedMoreTea 7y ago
Addressing that perception is always releasing the next "one true chat app". If they hear by not hearing - that whole "we hear you" blog post reads like it's been run through a comedy empty corporate speak generator, that's set too heavy-handed - I think hoping for self-awareness is a bit of a reach. Be thankful they aren't designing our mains sockets. :) Also, did no one at Google ever get the memo you never remove APIs, you deprecate - precisely because people depend on them?
cabalamat 7y ago
> but does anyone feel like they can count on Google for anything? Building anything on a Google platform is like building a house on sand. Going forward, I will be very reluctant to build anything on a Google API.
reificator 7y ago
I certainly don't feel like I can count on them. Once I've finished moving away from Google Play Music, my next plan is to get away from Google Voice.
mulmen 7y ago
Google cares about their customers. They just don’t care about consumers.

pjmlp 7y ago

I gave up on native Android, because every year the best practices get rebooted, they don't give a dam about future Java compatibility (Java 8+) and after 10 years, NDK is still WIP. One example, the whole story with fragments, then now that they finally have a good story with constraint layout, after three years in the making, they are introducing a Kotlin based DSL. At least the Chrome team gets a solid story with their PWAs, also supported by other vendors.

iamtheworstdev 7y ago
Can you blame them about abandoning Java thanks to Oracle?
- pjmlp 7y ago
  They don't have anyone to blame but themselves. First they screw Sun and then don't bother to buy Sun's assets when given the opportunity. Lots of third party JVM vendors are able to deliver improvements into the Java world, while staying in peace with Sun, now Oracle. Google being the exception. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Java_virtual_machines https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Java_virtual_machine... The Java community doesn't need Android J++.
  - erikpukinskis 7y ago
    Can you imagine being in a bidding war with Larry Ellison? Talk about a lose/lose... Either he outbids you and then had the legal right to fuck with you for decades Or he bids you up to some ungodly number, and you have to live with the fact that Larry Ellison forced you to burn billions of dollars for his personal gratification. Either way, you just feel dirty.
    - sbov 7y ago
      They're a multi billion dollar international conglomerate not a 10 person startup. Their primary business model involves tracking everything you do and everywhere you go. They're already dirty as shit.
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      Apparently they saved money going to trial.

stingraycharles 7y ago

My assumption has always been that the Google employees that read HN understand and even agree with this sentiment, but do not have the (political) power to actually influence this process. I’ve understood this to be a pretty fundamental cultural thing with Google, where people are more likely to get promoted for shipping something new (rather than improving something that already exists). If this is indeed the case, it’s likely not something that a few employees reading HN can solve, but rather needs a big shift in process from the very top of the organization.

jakear 7y ago
I am in contact with several googlers, and I’ve asked if they were aware of google’s reputation, and if it had impacted them directly. All said that they knew people perceived google as shutting down products often, but their own projects had never been shut down. They also said that google upper management was aware of it, and “was doing something about it”.
- bscphil 7y ago
  >but their own projects had never been shut down. Ironically this agrees pretty well with what your parent comment said: > the Google employees that read HN understand and even agree with this sentiment ... people are more likely to get promoted for shipping something new (rather than improving something that already exists) If the Google elite like your product, it gets integrated into everything and you get promoted. You probably stay at Google long term. If your products are the ones that get cut, are you likely to be a long term Googler? Google is an exercise in selection bias for a group of people who don't understand supporting a product long-term.
  - lrem 7y ago
    I understand both supporting a product long-term and selection bias. I also intend to be a long-term Googler, despite having been struck twice by leadership deciding my team no longer fits their picture, no matter the technical merit. Also: you can get promoted for a cancelled project, unless you're at the level where keeping the VP from cancelling it is within your duties.

craftinator 7y ago

Yes, of course we can count on Google to deliver good keyword search results based on specific quer... okay, semantically based search results that interpret what I'm actually looking fo... what the hell is AMP and where are my search resu... What is this carousel and where are my damn search results?

pjc50 7y ago

> mystifying that the higher ups at Google don't seem interested in addressing that perception unless enough people complain, despite the dissatisfaction being totally predictable. See the other thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19952069 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19952069 In which some of the commentators seem to be arguing that openly expressing your opinion on Google's product strategy is treason, or at the very least above your pay grade.

NeedMoreTea 7y ago

Addressing that perception is always releasing the next "one true chat app". If they hear by not hearing - that whole "we hear you" blog post reads like it's been run through a comedy empty corporate speak generator, that's set too heavy-handed - I think hoping for self-awareness is a bit of a reach. Be thankful they aren't designing our mains sockets. :) Also, did no one at Google ever get the memo you never remove APIs, you deprecate - precisely because people depend on them?

cabalamat 7y ago

> but does anyone feel like they can count on Google for anything? Building anything on a Google platform is like building a house on sand. Going forward, I will be very reluctant to build anything on a Google API.

reificator 7y ago

I certainly don't feel like I can count on them. Once I've finished moving away from Google Play Music, my next plan is to get away from Google Voice.

mulmen 7y ago

Google cares about their customers. They just don’t care about consumers.