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Whether you gave him the most succinct demonstration up front or not, it doesn't excuse Guido's behavior and dismissiveness towards you at all. Guido should h
by zzzeek 7y ago
Whether you gave him the most succinct demonstration up front or not, it doesn't excuse Guido's behavior and dismissiveness towards you at all. Guido should have found a way to be patient with you and ask for additional information if he felt he didn't have a clear enough explanation, and should have taken the time to prove his hunch (which turned out to be wrong) that the problem was on your end.
I did observe that you first provided a "fairly detailed repro recipe", and then after he rebuffed you, you provided a "simple, 20 line piece of obvious code". What Guido should have done was ask you to make the extra effort to provide the latter case if the "recipe" you provided was in fact too much effort for him to look at, for something that didn't seem to be a bug to him. That is, he wanted you to "spend the time" as you said, and if he had more experience with this kind of thing perhaps he would have known to just ask for it rather than dismissing the whole thing.
What happens to me, at least, a lot, is I get bug reports that are like "here just unzip this 10M attachment, install theses libraries and datafiles and then watch the log output for the thing I spent five paragraphs not really describing". These are not coworkers or customers of mine, for whom I might be obligated to go through all those steps for, they are regular users who have downloaded my software for free (as they should), and likely saving their company thousands or even millions of person-hours of work by doing so. The thing I ask these people in return is that they A. report issues to me and B. do as much work as they can to help me fix the problem - I'm not a concierge, the help process is more of part of how the give and take of open source software is supposed to work between parties.
I encourage these people to please pass along an MCVE, e.g. the most succinct demonstration script possible, and quite often when I get the sense that they don't really have the experience to know what I'm looking for (despite my sending them the link to what an MCVE is), I will often read their verbal description, then write my own MCVE in about one minute that shows what they are asserting is not true, and then I paste that into the issue; I have a Python fragment script that I use as a starting point for writing 90% of these test cases. I ask them to please modify the MCVE to show the thing they are actually trying to do. That's how I get them to send me a succinct problem description that isn't a huge waste of my time.
I understand this is likely not at all what happened in your case as you were both at Google and I'm sure folks there are more sophisticated than this. I just had the thought based on how you had sent two versions of the issue.
- DannyBee 7y agoI don't disagree with your assessment at all. There is never a reason to act like that and i didn't take it as "the normal course of business". FWIW: the detailed repro recipe was hermetic and single-binary (and guaranteed to work on his machine for various reasons), it just had more code than strictly necessary (It was still <500 lines, it was a very simple webapp). The actual recipe was closer to "run this binary, click on new record button, click save, observe results in datastore". I actually reduced it not because the recipe was too detailed, but to remove the argument that it was my code.