4 ms·

Government decisions are often the result of more than one factor. I did not assert that Microsoft's move to Munich was the only reason for the city's change f

Government decisions are often the result of more than one factor. I did not assert that Microsoft's move to Munich was the only reason for the city's change from LiMux to Windows. But, Microsoft did gain political influence in Munich by moving their headquarters there. Politics played a role in the city's decision, and there is sufficient press coverage to support this. See the TechRepublic article in my parent comment. You're arguing that the deployment of LiMux itself was the one and only reason for Munich's return to Windows, and dismissing the role of politics in Munich's decision as a "conspiracy theory". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

macspoofing 7y ago
How is what you're doing not FUD? You have no evidence for anything you're stating. Zero. >Microsoft did gain political influence in Munich by moving their headquarters there. And did it actually influence the decision of Munich to change their infrastructure? And how much? 10% or 90%? Let's say it was a minor consideration, on the order of 1%, and the rest was the result of the failure of the LiMux deployment itself - see what I mean about needing evidence. You can't just say things because of your FEELS. Again, one thing we know, it wasn't a great deployment.
- commoner 7y ago
  Read the TechTarget article from my first comment, which you've overlooked the last two times I mentioned it: https://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-in-munich-no-compelling-technical-reason-to-return-to-windows-says-citys-it-chief/ https://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-in-munich-no-comp... There are additional sources describing politics as a significant factor in the city's decision: https://www.networkworld.com/article/3170104/munichs-great-linux-desktop-initiative-may-end.html https://www.networkworld.com/article/3170104/munichs-great-l... https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=https://www.computerbase.de/2017-02/limux-muenchen-abgeschafft https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=https:/... https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heise.de%2Fnewsticker%2Fmeldung%2FMuenchner-IT-Leiter-zu-LiMux-Es-gibt-keine-groesseren-technischen-Probleme-3644868.html https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https... Reiter based the decision to switch back from LiMux to Windows on a report commissioned from Accenture, "the leading Microsoft services provider for the ninth consecutive year" with an obvious conflict of interest: https://newsroom.accenture.com/news/accenture-and-avanade-named-microsoft-2016-alliance-partner-of-the-year.htm https://newsroom.accenture.com/news/accenture-and-avanade-na... https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-partner-claims-munich-should-switch-from-linux-to-windows-10/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-partner-claims-munic... I invite you to provide evidence for your assertion that the role of politics in Munich's decision is a "conspiracy theory" and "FUD".
  - detaro 7y ago
    To note is that accenture didn't even go as far as to recommend the complete switch back to Windows the city decided to do. EDIT: > role of politics Role of politics is a somewhat different claim than just "pressure/influence by Microsoft" (which for sure happened, but it's hard to gauge how large the influence was), and includes lots of other factors that are likely to have also played a role. The entire thing is quite murky and I think "it happened because X" is too easy whatever the X is.
  - macspoofing 7y ago
    Unbelievable. You keep spreading FUD. Literal definition of FUD. Now it's Accenture who is secretly killing the project because they are in pocket of Microsoft. And why is Accenture involved? Because Munich commissioned their opinion. And why did Munich commission their opinion? Because they are in the pocket of Microsoft of course. And why is Munich in the pocket of Microsoft? Why, because Microsoft moved their German headquarters Munich - not for any business reasons - but for secret nefarious reasons. And where did the move it from? Why, from Unterschleißheim a city (suburb) approximately 16KM away!!!!!! Surely no corporation would ever want to move downtown to a major metropolis from a suburb into a bigger office complex. Let me repeat that: this nefarious move you keep using as an example, was a grand total of 16 km, from a suburb of Munich to Munich. AGAIN, the BIG picture - this deployment didn't turn out to be the success Munich had hoped it was going to be. They could limp along, sure, and I'm sure there are plenty of people who like it, especially the guy who runs the entire project, and the people who are ideological inclined against Microsoft, and the Green party... I mean Jesus, the only way they could get this LiMux thing to work was by maintaining Windows licenses for legacy software and interoperability, virtualizing Office because OpenOffice/LibreOffice sucks (and it does), and moving to Exchange for Calendar and Email. This is a chimera. It sucks. There were good reason to ditch Windows in the first place, and now there are good reasons to ditch this Linux experiment as well. That's the big picture. >I invite you to provide evidence for your assertion that the role of politics in Munich's decision is a "conspiracy theory" and "FUD". I invite you to provide evidence that your bias has not coloured your interpretation of events. Have fun proving a negative. (I read all the things you cited - it's the same kind of stuff - high on speculation, light on evidence).

macspoofing 7y ago

How is what you're doing not FUD? You have no evidence for anything you're stating. Zero. >Microsoft did gain political influence in Munich by moving their headquarters there. And did it actually influence the decision of Munich to change their infrastructure? And how much? 10% or 90%? Let's say it was a minor consideration, on the order of 1%, and the rest was the result of the failure of the LiMux deployment itself - see what I mean about needing evidence. You can't just say things because of your FEELS. Again, one thing we know, it wasn't a great deployment.

commoner 7y ago
Read the TechTarget article from my first comment, which you've overlooked the last two times I mentioned it: https://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-in-munich-no-compelling-technical-reason-to-return-to-windows-says-citys-it-chief/ https://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-in-munich-no-comp... There are additional sources describing politics as a significant factor in the city's decision: https://www.networkworld.com/article/3170104/munichs-great-linux-desktop-initiative-may-end.html https://www.networkworld.com/article/3170104/munichs-great-l... https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=https://www.computerbase.de/2017-02/limux-muenchen-abgeschafft https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=https:/... https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heise.de%2Fnewsticker%2Fmeldung%2FMuenchner-IT-Leiter-zu-LiMux-Es-gibt-keine-groesseren-technischen-Probleme-3644868.html https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https... Reiter based the decision to switch back from LiMux to Windows on a report commissioned from Accenture, "the leading Microsoft services provider for the ninth consecutive year" with an obvious conflict of interest: https://newsroom.accenture.com/news/accenture-and-avanade-named-microsoft-2016-alliance-partner-of-the-year.htm https://newsroom.accenture.com/news/accenture-and-avanade-na... https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-partner-claims-munich-should-switch-from-linux-to-windows-10/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-partner-claims-munic... I invite you to provide evidence for your assertion that the role of politics in Munich's decision is a "conspiracy theory" and "FUD".
- detaro 7y ago
  To note is that accenture didn't even go as far as to recommend the complete switch back to Windows the city decided to do. EDIT: > role of politics Role of politics is a somewhat different claim than just "pressure/influence by Microsoft" (which for sure happened, but it's hard to gauge how large the influence was), and includes lots of other factors that are likely to have also played a role. The entire thing is quite murky and I think "it happened because X" is too easy whatever the X is.
- macspoofing 7y ago
  Unbelievable. You keep spreading FUD. Literal definition of FUD. Now it's Accenture who is secretly killing the project because they are in pocket of Microsoft. And why is Accenture involved? Because Munich commissioned their opinion. And why did Munich commission their opinion? Because they are in the pocket of Microsoft of course. And why is Munich in the pocket of Microsoft? Why, because Microsoft moved their German headquarters Munich - not for any business reasons - but for secret nefarious reasons. And where did the move it from? Why, from Unterschleißheim a city (suburb) approximately 16KM away!!!!!! Surely no corporation would ever want to move downtown to a major metropolis from a suburb into a bigger office complex. Let me repeat that: this nefarious move you keep using as an example, was a grand total of 16 km, from a suburb of Munich to Munich. AGAIN, the BIG picture - this deployment didn't turn out to be the success Munich had hoped it was going to be. They could limp along, sure, and I'm sure there are plenty of people who like it, especially the guy who runs the entire project, and the people who are ideological inclined against Microsoft, and the Green party... I mean Jesus, the only way they could get this LiMux thing to work was by maintaining Windows licenses for legacy software and interoperability, virtualizing Office because OpenOffice/LibreOffice sucks (and it does), and moving to Exchange for Calendar and Email. This is a chimera. It sucks. There were good reason to ditch Windows in the first place, and now there are good reasons to ditch this Linux experiment as well. That's the big picture. >I invite you to provide evidence for your assertion that the role of politics in Munich's decision is a "conspiracy theory" and "FUD". I invite you to provide evidence that your bias has not coloured your interpretation of events. Have fun proving a negative. (I read all the things you cited - it's the same kind of stuff - high on speculation, light on evidence).