4 ms·

"when you are weak, the enemy should think you are strong, when you are strong the enemy should think you are weak" -The Art of War

falcor84 7y ago
Who is the enemy in this situation? I don't see how this applies to publicly traded companies.
- Jach 7y ago
  So much this... There are texts written with military contexts in mind from which you can extrapolate non militaristic lessons (The Book of Five Rings, for instance). The Art of War is not one of them. It's not surprising to see it quoted a lot though. I'll leave with a quote from Naggum; whether one thinks it's fair to Gates matters less in this context than if there's agreement that the outlined problem exists: "the problem I see is not that Bill Gates has shaped the world of useless trinkets in software, but has also managed to spread his competitiveness and his personal fear of losing to imaginary competitors to businesses and homes everywhere, so now everybody is _afraid_ of losing some battle which isn't happening, instead of getting about their own lives." https://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3141310154691952@naggum.no.html https://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3141310154691952@naggum...
  - bob33212 7y ago
    Sure, it isn't exactly the same situation as a war, where one country is fighting his neighbor country to the death. But to say that the art of war has no lessons to teach those of us who are not literally in a war is ignorant.
    - Jach 7y ago
      Perhaps I am ignorant. I've only gone through one translation of The Art of War, perhaps others are better, but for all such texts there are always motivated translators purposefully not capturing what was originally written in order to make it seem more broadly applicable. This discussion has reminded me that your oft-quoted "quote" doesn't seem to originate from any actual translation, but is a rephrasing of a bit of chapter 1, where it says "Therefore, when able, seem to be unable;" followed by a lot of other things. It's also worth pointing out what immediately precedes the 'therefore', which is: "Warfare is the art of deceit." That simple line left out of the version you quoted is crucial. Context matters, and applies for quotes even when the original is in English (see the full context of Knuth's premature optimization quote for instance). The context here is about deception in war. At best you could extrapolate it to situations where deception against your foes is needed in general, but even that is stretching things, and certainly doesn't apply all that much to publicly traded companies like Tesla. The closest analog for them is guarding trade secrets. Besides, deception is usually frowned upon outside of armed conflict, and if a public company deceives the wrong people about the wrong things, and gets called on it, then the company and its higher ups aren't going to have a good time. For example, cooking the books to 'appear strong' would be a rather egregious deception. Some forms of deception can have a more legitimate purpose in certain business dealings, it's true, as I'm now reminded of Gates' love of poker and some of his great bluffs in MS's early days. Though the consequences of failure wouldn't have been beheading. I'll quote the rest of the paragraph from my translation though and let you decide if Sun Tzu has anything to say about this narrow form at the poker table or when trying to arrange multi-party business dealings promising future deliveries: "when nearby, seem far away; and when far away, seem near. If the enemy seeks some advantage, entice him with it. If he is in disorder, attack him and take him. If he is formidable, prepare against him. If he is strong, evade him. If he is incensed, provoke him. If he is humble, encourage his arrogance. If he is rested, wear him down. If he is internally harmonious, sow divisiveness in his ranks. Attack where he is not prepared; go by way of places where it would never occur to him you would go. These are the military strategist's calculations for victory--they cannot be settled in advance."
thaumasiotes 7y ago
There's an influential rival school of thought that says when you're strong the enemy should know you're strong. If they think you're weak, they're not likely to attack you as a pre-emptive measure. But they're fairly likely to attack you for the normal reasons.

falcor84 7y ago

Who is the enemy in this situation? I don't see how this applies to publicly traded companies.

Jach 7y ago
So much this... There are texts written with military contexts in mind from which you can extrapolate non militaristic lessons (The Book of Five Rings, for instance). The Art of War is not one of them. It's not surprising to see it quoted a lot though. I'll leave with a quote from Naggum; whether one thinks it's fair to Gates matters less in this context than if there's agreement that the outlined problem exists: "the problem I see is not that Bill Gates has shaped the world of useless trinkets in software, but has also managed to spread his competitiveness and his personal fear of losing to imaginary competitors to businesses and homes everywhere, so now everybody is _afraid_ of losing some battle which isn't happening, instead of getting about their own lives." https://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3141310154691952@naggum.no.html https://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3141310154691952@naggum...
- bob33212 7y ago
  Sure, it isn't exactly the same situation as a war, where one country is fighting his neighbor country to the death. But to say that the art of war has no lessons to teach those of us who are not literally in a war is ignorant.
  - Jach 7y ago
    Perhaps I am ignorant. I've only gone through one translation of The Art of War, perhaps others are better, but for all such texts there are always motivated translators purposefully not capturing what was originally written in order to make it seem more broadly applicable. This discussion has reminded me that your oft-quoted "quote" doesn't seem to originate from any actual translation, but is a rephrasing of a bit of chapter 1, where it says "Therefore, when able, seem to be unable;" followed by a lot of other things. It's also worth pointing out what immediately precedes the 'therefore', which is: "Warfare is the art of deceit." That simple line left out of the version you quoted is crucial. Context matters, and applies for quotes even when the original is in English (see the full context of Knuth's premature optimization quote for instance). The context here is about deception in war. At best you could extrapolate it to situations where deception against your foes is needed in general, but even that is stretching things, and certainly doesn't apply all that much to publicly traded companies like Tesla. The closest analog for them is guarding trade secrets. Besides, deception is usually frowned upon outside of armed conflict, and if a public company deceives the wrong people about the wrong things, and gets called on it, then the company and its higher ups aren't going to have a good time. For example, cooking the books to 'appear strong' would be a rather egregious deception. Some forms of deception can have a more legitimate purpose in certain business dealings, it's true, as I'm now reminded of Gates' love of poker and some of his great bluffs in MS's early days. Though the consequences of failure wouldn't have been beheading. I'll quote the rest of the paragraph from my translation though and let you decide if Sun Tzu has anything to say about this narrow form at the poker table or when trying to arrange multi-party business dealings promising future deliveries: "when nearby, seem far away; and when far away, seem near. If the enemy seeks some advantage, entice him with it. If he is in disorder, attack him and take him. If he is formidable, prepare against him. If he is strong, evade him. If he is incensed, provoke him. If he is humble, encourage his arrogance. If he is rested, wear him down. If he is internally harmonious, sow divisiveness in his ranks. Attack where he is not prepared; go by way of places where it would never occur to him you would go. These are the military strategist's calculations for victory--they cannot be settled in advance."

thaumasiotes 7y ago

There's an influential rival school of thought that says when you're strong the enemy should know you're strong. If they think you're weak, they're not likely to attack you as a pre-emptive measure. But they're fairly likely to attack you for the normal reasons.