8 ms·

Sure, but whoever set the trap obviously did so to control him, not to expose him, or they wouldn’t have waited so long. So there are more corrupt parties to ex

by hjk05 7y ago

Sure, but whoever set the trap obviously did so to control him, not to expose him, or they wouldn’t have waited so long. So there are more corrupt parties to expose.

tom_mellior 7y ago
> whoever set the trap obviously did so to control him, not to expose him We have no indication that he was controlled, so what are you basing this on? My guess is that the video was produced as a form of insurance by people who wanted to see if he gets into government, and how bad it really gets. Otherwise they could have leaked the video before the last parliamentary elections. At some point they decided that Strache must go, and it seemed like timing it before the important EU elections would have the biggest impact. > So there are more corrupt parties to expose. How does this follow? (Not that it isn't true...)
- acqq 7y ago
  > what are you basing this on? Orchestrating and preparing such a complex setup that culminates in the recording of the compromising material 2 years ago. Then waiting, delivering the material exactly one week ago to the media. The editor of "Spiegel" newspaper personally claims that they received it one week ago and don't know who prepared the whole setup and recorded the video. It wasn't a small trick: the recording happened on Ibiza at the begin of Summer 2017, involved a "fake daughter of an investor" introduced through the circles of the top politicians involved, a preparation of the huge villa to contain a number of cameras all carefully placed so that during the whole stay the good shots of the politicians can be made, including placing the expensive cars in front of the villa etc. And then, after the successful recording... waiting two years?
  - tom_mellior 7y ago
    You didn't read my question correctly.
    - acqq 7y ago
      Regarding you questioning the statement "> whoever set the trap obviously did so to control him..." I consider that part of the statement obviously true. Causing somebody to give up his political functions is effectively a kind of control over the person (and more, when the person is the head of the party). What I understand you don't agree is "not to expose him" part, which was also true for whole two years -- an eternity in politics -- the video was made but not used to expose him for two years. Therefore more interesting than philosophizing about the exact meaning of the words is following what was going on and how it was done: There is a known relatively recently told story about the most powerful country in the world organizing events to compromise somebody in order to blackmail them: "Snowden described his CIA experience in Geneva as formative, stating that the CIA deliberately got a Swiss banker drunk and encouraged him to drive home. Snowden said that when the latter was arrested, a CIA operative offered to help in exchange for the banker becoming an informant." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden The scale of this what was used now is many orders of magnitude bigger. You mentioned in your other comment "the woman groomed Gudenus over half a year or so before the Ibiza meeting" and giving a link to the article in German, thanks for that -- so there is at least somebody writing trying to figure out who's behind this. Do you know what is the story mentioned there at the end (used Google Translate): "And last but not least, the house search in the BAT with all its consequences should be mentioned as a secret service disaster." The most interesting detail from the article you've linked: "Above all, the US, which sits in virtually every major intelligence agency, has expressed a great deal of concern that information could flow away to Russia."
      - tom_mellior 7y ago
        > organizing events to compromise somebody in order to blackmail them Yes, but this is exactly what did not happen here. > so there is at least somebody writing trying to figure out who's behind this Of course there is, and claiming that there isn't is just paranoia on your part. For whatever it's worth, here is another one: https://derstandard.at/2000103424380/Die-Drahtzieher-hinter-dem-Strache-Video https://derstandard.at/2000103424380/Die-Drahtzieher-hinter-... All Austrian and most major German-language news sites should have something along these lines, but you do have to look rather than assume that it doesn't exist. > "And last but not least, the house search in the BAT with all its consequences should be mentioned as a secret service disaster." Here is a summary, but only in German: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/BVT-Aff%C3%A4re https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/BVT-Aff%C3%A4re Very briefly, a police unit controlled by an FPÖ politician illegally searched the offices of the BVT (the office for constitutional protection and counterterrorism) and seized data, apparently mostly about right-wing extremist networks.

by hjk05 7y ago

Sure, but whoever set the trap obviously did so to control him, not to expose him, or they wouldn’t have waited so long. So there are more corrupt parties to expose.

tom_mellior 7y ago

> whoever set the trap obviously did so to control him, not to expose him We have no indication that he was controlled, so what are you basing this on? My guess is that the video was produced as a form of insurance by people who wanted to see if he gets into government, and how bad it really gets. Otherwise they could have leaked the video before the last parliamentary elections. At some point they decided that Strache must go, and it seemed like timing it before the important EU elections would have the biggest impact. > So there are more corrupt parties to expose. How does this follow? (Not that it isn't true...)

acqq 7y ago
> what are you basing this on? Orchestrating and preparing such a complex setup that culminates in the recording of the compromising material 2 years ago. Then waiting, delivering the material exactly one week ago to the media. The editor of "Spiegel" newspaper personally claims that they received it one week ago and don't know who prepared the whole setup and recorded the video. It wasn't a small trick: the recording happened on Ibiza at the begin of Summer 2017, involved a "fake daughter of an investor" introduced through the circles of the top politicians involved, a preparation of the huge villa to contain a number of cameras all carefully placed so that during the whole stay the good shots of the politicians can be made, including placing the expensive cars in front of the villa etc. And then, after the successful recording... waiting two years?
- tom_mellior 7y ago
  You didn't read my question correctly.
  - acqq 7y ago
    Regarding you questioning the statement "> whoever set the trap obviously did so to control him..." I consider that part of the statement obviously true. Causing somebody to give up his political functions is effectively a kind of control over the person (and more, when the person is the head of the party). What I understand you don't agree is "not to expose him" part, which was also true for whole two years -- an eternity in politics -- the video was made but not used to expose him for two years. Therefore more interesting than philosophizing about the exact meaning of the words is following what was going on and how it was done: There is a known relatively recently told story about the most powerful country in the world organizing events to compromise somebody in order to blackmail them: "Snowden described his CIA experience in Geneva as formative, stating that the CIA deliberately got a Swiss banker drunk and encouraged him to drive home. Snowden said that when the latter was arrested, a CIA operative offered to help in exchange for the banker becoming an informant." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden The scale of this what was used now is many orders of magnitude bigger. You mentioned in your other comment "the woman groomed Gudenus over half a year or so before the Ibiza meeting" and giving a link to the article in German, thanks for that -- so there is at least somebody writing trying to figure out who's behind this. Do you know what is the story mentioned there at the end (used Google Translate): "And last but not least, the house search in the BAT with all its consequences should be mentioned as a secret service disaster." The most interesting detail from the article you've linked: "Above all, the US, which sits in virtually every major intelligence agency, has expressed a great deal of concern that information could flow away to Russia."
    - tom_mellior 7y ago
      > organizing events to compromise somebody in order to blackmail them Yes, but this is exactly what did not happen here. > so there is at least somebody writing trying to figure out who's behind this Of course there is, and claiming that there isn't is just paranoia on your part. For whatever it's worth, here is another one: https://derstandard.at/2000103424380/Die-Drahtzieher-hinter-dem-Strache-Video https://derstandard.at/2000103424380/Die-Drahtzieher-hinter-... All Austrian and most major German-language news sites should have something along these lines, but you do have to look rather than assume that it doesn't exist. > "And last but not least, the house search in the BAT with all its consequences should be mentioned as a secret service disaster." Here is a summary, but only in German: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/BVT-Aff%C3%A4re https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/BVT-Aff%C3%A4re Very briefly, a police unit controlled by an FPÖ politician illegally searched the offices of the BVT (the office for constitutional protection and counterterrorism) and seized data, apparently mostly about right-wing extremist networks.