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Hang on. It’s not just racist hiring policies. We have companies here that are doing business in a country that is putting millions of people of a certain ethni

by erentz 7y ago

Hang on. It’s not just racist hiring policies. We have companies here that are doing business in a country that is putting millions of people of a certain ethnicity in concentration camps. That really is not being talked about enough.

VonGuard 7y ago
This.
devoply 7y ago
Yes and we are talking about Apple which has 245 billion dollars cash on hand yet is paying workers $272 / month. Where we can hardly blame workers for what China is doing, we definitely can hold Apple to account for what it's doing. This is the sort of shit Marx was referring to as ripping the workers off surplus value in the beginning of the industrial age. Socially conscious my ass.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- jjtheblunt 7y ago
  Entirely wrong : that's not Apple doing that, and, having spent years as an engineer at Apple, it's a huge priority to be ethical and good. i'm serious. Why not move elsewhere? The only factories able to produce the required volumes are, by virtue of great planning by China, there, and perform work on a contract basis for many companies, Apple included, Dell, and so on.
  - MegaButts 7y ago
    I realize it's a complicated subject, but if ethics was as high a priority as you were saying why wouldn't they simply move those jobs somewhere else with lower margins? EDIT: Since you edited your comment instead of responding to mine, yes China is the only country that can currently support Apple's manufacturing needs. But if Apple actually felt it was unethical to work with China for whatever reason they could begin the process to have factories set up elsewhere, even in the United States or Mexico, within a few years. It would obviously impact their profit margins, but you are arguing that ethics is a "huge priority" while providing nothing substantive to back up that claim.
    - jjtheblunt 7y ago
      Not sure why, but it wouldn't let me reply to your post earlier. (?). Now it does. Apple has been building Mac Pros in a factory in Texas; i'm not aware what is produced where though for a couple years.
      - MegaButts 7y ago
        All right, rather than discuss Apple potentially moving manufacturing operations overseas, let me ask another question. What are some concrete examples of Apple putting a lot of value in ethics?
  - tomcam 7y ago
    > The only factories able to produce the required volumes are, by virtue of great planning by China, there I take a nuanced view of these things. I understand that in vast swathes of rural China job opportunities like this were until recently the only way to make a decent living for many people (most of my family is Asian, and I have investments there). And I also know that most companies could not in fact replicate that technology. But Apple is rubbing everyone’s nose in their social virtue. If they really believed what they were saying they could definitely replicate a factory like Foxconn’s in Texas for, say, $100 billion. Dell couldn’t, HP probably couldn’t, but they aren’t telling me how to live my life either.
    - HillRat 7y ago
      Beyond that, you could definitely migrate iPhone production to, say, Foxconn’s production facilities in Guadalajara with appropriate production guarantees from Apple and satellite investments from other entities to replicate the PRC supply chain advantages. Not tomorrow, not even in the next few years, but the opportunity to reshore high-tech manufacturing is completely attainable.
      - tomcam 7y ago
        That’s a great idea. I had no knowledge of the Guadalajara location.

by erentz 7y ago

VonGuard 7y ago

This.

devoply 7y ago

Yes and we are talking about Apple which has 245 billion dollars cash on hand yet is paying workers $272 / month. Where we can hardly blame workers for what China is doing, we definitely can hold Apple to account for what it's doing. This is the sort of shit Marx was referring to as ripping the workers off surplus value in the beginning of the industrial age. Socially conscious my ass.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
jjtheblunt 7y ago
Entirely wrong : that's not Apple doing that, and, having spent years as an engineer at Apple, it's a huge priority to be ethical and good. i'm serious. Why not move elsewhere? The only factories able to produce the required volumes are, by virtue of great planning by China, there, and perform work on a contract basis for many companies, Apple included, Dell, and so on.
- MegaButts 7y ago
  I realize it's a complicated subject, but if ethics was as high a priority as you were saying why wouldn't they simply move those jobs somewhere else with lower margins? EDIT: Since you edited your comment instead of responding to mine, yes China is the only country that can currently support Apple's manufacturing needs. But if Apple actually felt it was unethical to work with China for whatever reason they could begin the process to have factories set up elsewhere, even in the United States or Mexico, within a few years. It would obviously impact their profit margins, but you are arguing that ethics is a "huge priority" while providing nothing substantive to back up that claim.
  - jjtheblunt 7y ago
    Not sure why, but it wouldn't let me reply to your post earlier. (?). Now it does. Apple has been building Mac Pros in a factory in Texas; i'm not aware what is produced where though for a couple years.
    - MegaButts 7y ago
      All right, rather than discuss Apple potentially moving manufacturing operations overseas, let me ask another question. What are some concrete examples of Apple putting a lot of value in ethics?
- tomcam 7y ago
  > The only factories able to produce the required volumes are, by virtue of great planning by China, there I take a nuanced view of these things. I understand that in vast swathes of rural China job opportunities like this were until recently the only way to make a decent living for many people (most of my family is Asian, and I have investments there). And I also know that most companies could not in fact replicate that technology. But Apple is rubbing everyone’s nose in their social virtue. If they really believed what they were saying they could definitely replicate a factory like Foxconn’s in Texas for, say, $100 billion. Dell couldn’t, HP probably couldn’t, but they aren’t telling me how to live my life either.
  - HillRat 7y ago
    Beyond that, you could definitely migrate iPhone production to, say, Foxconn’s production facilities in Guadalajara with appropriate production guarantees from Apple and satellite investments from other entities to replicate the PRC supply chain advantages. Not tomorrow, not even in the next few years, but the opportunity to reshore high-tech manufacturing is completely attainable.
    - tomcam 7y ago
      That’s a great idea. I had no knowledge of the Guadalajara location.