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Yes. So? People have known for a very long time that Strache and his party are a danger to democracy and human rights. For people with the means and the motive

Yes. So? People have known for a very long time that Strache and his party are a danger to democracy and human rights. For people with the means and the motive to set this up, it made sense to do it.

acqq 7y ago
> Yes. So? Independently of condemning what the politician said the media tries to ignore that some “external power” directly orchestrates not only the compromise of the political party but also by carefully selected timing the outcomes of the political life in one european country and even more, in whole Europe. That secret power is definitely not the media house, they got the whole thing on the plate, carefully prepared. They just serve it. An everybody pretends that doesn’t matter?
- deogeo 7y ago
  It sure mattered when wikileaks did it.
  - acqq 7y ago
    Wikileaks published leaks. But note: this was not a leak. This was a professionally created and organised blackmail-worthy compromising material given to the media two years after the creation at the point in time to make the biggest possible influence on the European politics and the media turning their head away from even trying to ask which power did that, with which financing and with which agenda.
    - bob_doggo 7y ago
      ..."and the media turning their head away from even trying to ask which power did that, with which financing and with which agenda." what makes you say that? The original story at: https://projekte.sueddeutsche.de/artikel/politik/caught-in-the-trap-e675751/ https://projekte.sueddeutsche.de/artikel/politik/caught-in-t... clearly states: Neither Der Spiegel nor the Süddeutsche Zeitung have any reliable information about the motives of the people who set Strache this trap in 2017 or who they may have been working for. But one thing is clear following the evaluation of the material and verification of its authenticity by two experts: It is in the public interest to know how Strache and Gudenus, high-ranking representatives of the Austrian government and of their party, responded to dubious advances from a purported oligarch.
- tom_mellior 7y ago
  I agree that this should be discussed more. But always with the important observation that in this case it's not anti-democrats trying to smear democrats; it's the opposite, it's democrats exposing corrupt anti-democrats.
  - acqq 7y ago
    > t's democrats exposing corrupt anti-democrats. It is not “democrats” but some hidden power.
  - kerng 7y ago
    After reading the article it seems that at this point no-one knows who is really behind this. Could be a foreign government, could be a comedian, could be another political party,... Or did I miss something?
    - tom_mellior 7y ago
      I think the general consensus seems to be that this was a large-scale operation (the woman groomed Gudenus over half a year or so before the Ibiza meeting) that points to a very professional actor. But yeah, everybody is guessing. This article guesses at a western intelligence service that wanted to stop intelligence leaks towards Russia: https://diepresse.com/home/innenpolitik/5630280/Woher-kommt-das-StracheVideo https://diepresse.com/home/innenpolitik/5630280/Woher-kommt-...
  - Grustaf 7y ago
    How on earth do you know that the smearers are ”democrats”?
    - tom_mellior 7y ago
      Fair enough. Anti-fascist anti-corruption fighters who are possibly not democrats. BTW, it's not a smear if it's true. Smearing involves false accusations, but nobody denies the authenticity of the video.
hjk05 7y ago
Sure, but whoever set the trap obviously did so to control him, not to expose him, or they wouldn’t have waited so long. So there are more corrupt parties to expose.
- tom_mellior 7y ago
  > whoever set the trap obviously did so to control him, not to expose him We have no indication that he was controlled, so what are you basing this on? My guess is that the video was produced as a form of insurance by people who wanted to see if he gets into government, and how bad it really gets. Otherwise they could have leaked the video before the last parliamentary elections. At some point they decided that Strache must go, and it seemed like timing it before the important EU elections would have the biggest impact. > So there are more corrupt parties to expose. How does this follow? (Not that it isn't true...)
  - acqq 7y ago
    > what are you basing this on? Orchestrating and preparing such a complex setup that culminates in the recording of the compromising material 2 years ago. Then waiting, delivering the material exactly one week ago to the media. The editor of "Spiegel" newspaper personally claims that they received it one week ago and don't know who prepared the whole setup and recorded the video. It wasn't a small trick: the recording happened on Ibiza at the begin of Summer 2017, involved a "fake daughter of an investor" introduced through the circles of the top politicians involved, a preparation of the huge villa to contain a number of cameras all carefully placed so that during the whole stay the good shots of the politicians can be made, including placing the expensive cars in front of the villa etc. And then, after the successful recording... waiting two years?
    - tom_mellior 7y ago
      You didn't read my question correctly.
      - acqq 7y ago

Yes. So? People have known for a very long time that Strache and his party are a danger to democracy and human rights. For people with the means and the motive to set this up, it made sense to do it.

acqq 7y ago

> Yes. So? Independently of condemning what the politician said the media tries to ignore that some “external power” directly orchestrates not only the compromise of the political party but also by carefully selected timing the outcomes of the political life in one european country and even more, in whole Europe. That secret power is definitely not the media house, they got the whole thing on the plate, carefully prepared. They just serve it. An everybody pretends that doesn’t matter?

deogeo 7y ago
It sure mattered when wikileaks did it.
- acqq 7y ago
  Wikileaks published leaks. But note: this was not a leak. This was a professionally created and organised blackmail-worthy compromising material given to the media two years after the creation at the point in time to make the biggest possible influence on the European politics and the media turning their head away from even trying to ask which power did that, with which financing and with which agenda.
  - bob_doggo 7y ago
    ..."and the media turning their head away from even trying to ask which power did that, with which financing and with which agenda." what makes you say that? The original story at: https://projekte.sueddeutsche.de/artikel/politik/caught-in-the-trap-e675751/ https://projekte.sueddeutsche.de/artikel/politik/caught-in-t... clearly states: Neither Der Spiegel nor the Süddeutsche Zeitung have any reliable information about the motives of the people who set Strache this trap in 2017 or who they may have been working for. But one thing is clear following the evaluation of the material and verification of its authenticity by two experts: It is in the public interest to know how Strache and Gudenus, high-ranking representatives of the Austrian government and of their party, responded to dubious advances from a purported oligarch.
tom_mellior 7y ago
I agree that this should be discussed more. But always with the important observation that in this case it's not anti-democrats trying to smear democrats; it's the opposite, it's democrats exposing corrupt anti-democrats.
- acqq 7y ago
  > t's democrats exposing corrupt anti-democrats. It is not “democrats” but some hidden power.
- kerng 7y ago
  After reading the article it seems that at this point no-one knows who is really behind this. Could be a foreign government, could be a comedian, could be another political party,... Or did I miss something?
  - tom_mellior 7y ago
    I think the general consensus seems to be that this was a large-scale operation (the woman groomed Gudenus over half a year or so before the Ibiza meeting) that points to a very professional actor. But yeah, everybody is guessing. This article guesses at a western intelligence service that wanted to stop intelligence leaks towards Russia: https://diepresse.com/home/innenpolitik/5630280/Woher-kommt-das-StracheVideo https://diepresse.com/home/innenpolitik/5630280/Woher-kommt-...
- Grustaf 7y ago
  How on earth do you know that the smearers are ”democrats”?
  - tom_mellior 7y ago
    Fair enough. Anti-fascist anti-corruption fighters who are possibly not democrats. BTW, it's not a smear if it's true. Smearing involves false accusations, but nobody denies the authenticity of the video.

hjk05 7y ago

Sure, but whoever set the trap obviously did so to control him, not to expose him, or they wouldn’t have waited so long. So there are more corrupt parties to expose.

tom_mellior 7y ago
> whoever set the trap obviously did so to control him, not to expose him We have no indication that he was controlled, so what are you basing this on? My guess is that the video was produced as a form of insurance by people who wanted to see if he gets into government, and how bad it really gets. Otherwise they could have leaked the video before the last parliamentary elections. At some point they decided that Strache must go, and it seemed like timing it before the important EU elections would have the biggest impact. > So there are more corrupt parties to expose. How does this follow? (Not that it isn't true...)
- acqq 7y ago
  > what are you basing this on? Orchestrating and preparing such a complex setup that culminates in the recording of the compromising material 2 years ago. Then waiting, delivering the material exactly one week ago to the media. The editor of "Spiegel" newspaper personally claims that they received it one week ago and don't know who prepared the whole setup and recorded the video. It wasn't a small trick: the recording happened on Ibiza at the begin of Summer 2017, involved a "fake daughter of an investor" introduced through the circles of the top politicians involved, a preparation of the huge villa to contain a number of cameras all carefully placed so that during the whole stay the good shots of the politicians can be made, including placing the expensive cars in front of the villa etc. And then, after the successful recording... waiting two years?
  - tom_mellior 7y ago
    You didn't read my question correctly.
    - acqq 7y ago