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My argument isn't to excuse Foxconn. It's to point out that we're having this discussion at the wrong zoom level. There are complex geopolitical, social, and e

My argument isn't to excuse Foxconn. It's to point out that we're having this discussion at the wrong zoom level. There are complex geopolitical, social, and economic factors involved. In the system that exists, Foxconn is actually one of the better if not best actors. But of course HN wants to boil it down to Apple cutting a check to Foxconn employees because iPhone. Yes let's severely gimp a domestic company that generates over 5% of America's GDP (and 1% of the world's) in favor of paying Chinese manufacturers much more - when China incessantly steals American IP without care and prevents foreign companies from competing in their domestic markets. Great idea.

benologist 7y ago
I don't really see how this is about Foxconn. Foxconn only hires those people for Apple and Apple only have Foxconn do it because they'd have to pay more to do it themselves. How much they're paid is dictated by Apple. I think there's some parallel with Uber's contractor-vs-employee situation but it's much more apparent when you consider these people are exclusively working on Apple devices, within Apple's supply chain, subject to Apple's rules and rulings, even some of the components and the software come from Apple employees. Their $1.70 an hour should be compared to the US federal minimum wage or something because that's the number Apple decided to skip out on, even as they hoarded a quarter trillion dollars.
- askafriend 7y ago
  "If not to buy Apple, what’s the substitute – Samsung? Don’t you know that Samsung’s products are from its OEM factory in Tianjin? Samsung workers’ income and benefits are even worse than those at Foxconn. If not to buy iPad – (do you think) I will buy Android Pad? Have you ever been to the OEM factories for Lenovo and ASUS? Quanta, Compaq … factories of other companies are all worse than those for Apple. Not to buy iPod – (do you think) I will buy Aigo, Meizu? Do you know that Aigo’s Shenzhen factory will not pay their workers until the 19th of the second month? If you were to quit, fine, I’m sorry, your salary will be withdrawn. Foxconn never dares to do such things. First, their profit margin is higher than peers as they manufacture for Apple. Second, at least those foreign devils will regularly audit factories. Domestic brands will never care if workers live or die. I am not speaking for Foxconn. I am just speaking as an insider of this industry, and telling you some disturbing truth" - Anonymous Chinese Worker https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/01/many-chinese-workers-want-those-jobs-foxconn/332419/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/01/many-... Again, I don't point this out because I think the conditions are OK. I simply point this out to provide context and relativity to the situation. Do you really think Apple is responsible for fixing China's problems? I don't think so. But they DO take responsibility and have made strides in improving conditions for workers that work on their products. And that, I can appreciate.

benologist 7y ago

I don't really see how this is about Foxconn. Foxconn only hires those people for Apple and Apple only have Foxconn do it because they'd have to pay more to do it themselves. How much they're paid is dictated by Apple. I think there's some parallel with Uber's contractor-vs-employee situation but it's much more apparent when you consider these people are exclusively working on Apple devices, within Apple's supply chain, subject to Apple's rules and rulings, even some of the components and the software come from Apple employees. Their $1.70 an hour should be compared to the US federal minimum wage or something because that's the number Apple decided to skip out on, even as they hoarded a quarter trillion dollars.

askafriend 7y ago
"If not to buy Apple, what’s the substitute – Samsung? Don’t you know that Samsung’s products are from its OEM factory in Tianjin? Samsung workers’ income and benefits are even worse than those at Foxconn. If not to buy iPad – (do you think) I will buy Android Pad? Have you ever been to the OEM factories for Lenovo and ASUS? Quanta, Compaq … factories of other companies are all worse than those for Apple. Not to buy iPod – (do you think) I will buy Aigo, Meizu? Do you know that Aigo’s Shenzhen factory will not pay their workers until the 19th of the second month? If you were to quit, fine, I’m sorry, your salary will be withdrawn. Foxconn never dares to do such things. First, their profit margin is higher than peers as they manufacture for Apple. Second, at least those foreign devils will regularly audit factories. Domestic brands will never care if workers live or die. I am not speaking for Foxconn. I am just speaking as an insider of this industry, and telling you some disturbing truth" - Anonymous Chinese Worker https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/01/many-chinese-workers-want-those-jobs-foxconn/332419/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/01/many-... Again, I don't point this out because I think the conditions are OK. I simply point this out to provide context and relativity to the situation. Do you really think Apple is responsible for fixing China's problems? I don't think so. But they DO take responsibility and have made strides in improving conditions for workers that work on their products. And that, I can appreciate.