7 ms·

American living in Switzerland: Can confirm there's a cat ladder from the ground up to a balcony down the street. I find the country also really values animal

by cjslep 7y ago

American living in Switzerland: Can confirm there's a cat ladder from the ground up to a balcony down the street. I find the country also really values animal welfare as a whole.

briandear 7y ago
If they valued animal welfare, they wouldn’t allow cats outdoors. They are menace to local wildlife and biodiversity. https://abcbirds.org/program/cats-indoors/cats-and-birds/ https://abcbirds.org/program/cats-indoors/cats-and-birds/
- frickinLasers 7y ago
  Why is this downvoted? There's plenty of evidence. "We estimate that free-ranging domestic cats kill 1.3–4.0 billion birds and 6.3–22.3 billion mammals annually." "may exceed all other sources of anthropogenic mortality of US birds and mammals" https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380 https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380
  - reaperducer 7y ago
    The birds thing I understand. But mammals? It's mostly vermin like mice and rats. It's not like Fluffy McButtwiggles is taking down a hippopotamus.
    - fian 7y ago
      There are many small marsupials (mammals) in Australia that are predated on by feral and domestic cats. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cats_in_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cats_in_Australia We have a cat that was rescued from a neglectful neighbour. We were shocked one night when it turned up at our back door with a live pet rabbit is had nabbed from a house a few doors away. Thankfully the cat mostly has since caught non-native mice and grasshoppers since (that we are aware of). The best conservation efforts at restoring native animal populations in Australia have been achieved through cat and fox proof fencing followed by trapping, baiting and shooting programs: https://www.australianwildlife.org/sanctuaries/mt-gibson/ https://www.australianwildlife.org/sanctuaries/mt-gibson/
      - reaperducer 7y ago
        We were shocked one night when it turned up at our back door with a live pet rabbit is had nabbed from a house a few doors away. Interesting. I once had a golden retriever bring us a baby rabbit from the woods. But he brought it to us in a nurturing way, as if to being it to us for help, not for dinner. Just another way dogs and cats are different, I guess.
        BrandonMarc 7y ago
        My sister's pet rabbit was killed by a neighbor's Dalmatian. I figure every dog is different.
  - Semiapies 7y ago
    Switzerland being in Europe is probably one objection. Cats aren't an invasive species, there.
    - smnrchrds 7y ago
      Indeed. New world has tons of pristine nature and native species worth preserving. It's a few millennia too late to do the same in the old world.
- cjslep 7y ago
  You know what I meant and are choosing to be uncharitable here. I don't think keeping cats in their indoor "native habitat" will undo millennia of Old World having outdoor cats. Feel free to look up Switzerland's protection of cats instead.
- Crosseye_Jack 7y ago
  It depends on the country and who you ask. If you ask the UK Government[0] and UK’s RSPB[1] you will find that cats are a predator of birds but there is no evidence that they are the reason for the declining bird population. In the UK garden birds are on the incline which would be counter to the general public argument that (paraphrasing here) “pet cats are killing all the birds”. The declining bird population as whole is put down to other factors such has changes to how we farm food, decreasing hedgerows, basically us humans ripping out the birds habitats and not our cats murdering them. Where I live small rodents are a pest, there is a large number of them and we want to control their number. Cats will stick to their learnt hunting behaviour. If they learn to hunt rodents when they are young then that’s what they will focus on hunting in their adult life’s. So in my area my cat mainly hunts rodents (comparing the numbers of mice she brings home compared to the number of birds she has). So as a kitten (and though out it’s life) play with ground based hunting toys instead of airborne toys. Get them a bell on their collar, and change it up ever now and then. Now... Am I going to say that this is the case in all countries? Nope. Let’s take Australia where the feral cat population is vastly growing which is causing harm to the native rodent population, but that’s been blamed on the feral population and are being culled and not the domestic cats living with humans. [0]: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/754432/UK_Wild_birds_1970-2017_FINAL__002_.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... [1]: https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/gardening-for-wildlife/animal-deterrents/cats-and-garden-birds/are-cats-causing-bird-declines/ https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/gardening-...
vinay427 7y ago
> I find the country also really values animal welfare as a whole. There are incredibly high and well-known subsidies for animal farming industries here, in addition to a blind eye often turned toward the treatment of said animals. It's arguable that most Swiss people value animal welfare more than many in the US, but saying that the country "really values" it when they opt to pay large sums of money for unnecessary animal suffering, both on the governmental and often individual level, sounds rather absurd to me.

by cjslep 7y ago

American living in Switzerland: Can confirm there's a cat ladder from the ground up to a balcony down the street. I find the country also really values animal welfare as a whole.

briandear 7y ago

If they valued animal welfare, they wouldn’t allow cats outdoors. They are menace to local wildlife and biodiversity. https://abcbirds.org/program/cats-indoors/cats-and-birds/ https://abcbirds.org/program/cats-indoors/cats-and-birds/

frickinLasers 7y ago
Why is this downvoted? There's plenty of evidence. "We estimate that free-ranging domestic cats kill 1.3–4.0 billion birds and 6.3–22.3 billion mammals annually." "may exceed all other sources of anthropogenic mortality of US birds and mammals" https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380 https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380
- reaperducer 7y ago
  The birds thing I understand. But mammals? It's mostly vermin like mice and rats. It's not like Fluffy McButtwiggles is taking down a hippopotamus.
  - fian 7y ago
    There are many small marsupials (mammals) in Australia that are predated on by feral and domestic cats. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cats_in_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cats_in_Australia We have a cat that was rescued from a neglectful neighbour. We were shocked one night when it turned up at our back door with a live pet rabbit is had nabbed from a house a few doors away. Thankfully the cat mostly has since caught non-native mice and grasshoppers since (that we are aware of). The best conservation efforts at restoring native animal populations in Australia have been achieved through cat and fox proof fencing followed by trapping, baiting and shooting programs: https://www.australianwildlife.org/sanctuaries/mt-gibson/ https://www.australianwildlife.org/sanctuaries/mt-gibson/
    - reaperducer 7y ago
      We were shocked one night when it turned up at our back door with a live pet rabbit is had nabbed from a house a few doors away. Interesting. I once had a golden retriever bring us a baby rabbit from the woods. But he brought it to us in a nurturing way, as if to being it to us for help, not for dinner. Just another way dogs and cats are different, I guess.
      - BrandonMarc 7y ago
        My sister's pet rabbit was killed by a neighbor's Dalmatian. I figure every dog is different.
- Semiapies 7y ago
  Switzerland being in Europe is probably one objection. Cats aren't an invasive species, there.
  - smnrchrds 7y ago
    Indeed. New world has tons of pristine nature and native species worth preserving. It's a few millennia too late to do the same in the old world.
cjslep 7y ago
You know what I meant and are choosing to be uncharitable here. I don't think keeping cats in their indoor "native habitat" will undo millennia of Old World having outdoor cats. Feel free to look up Switzerland's protection of cats instead.
Crosseye_Jack 7y ago
It depends on the country and who you ask. If you ask the UK Government[0] and UK’s RSPB[1] you will find that cats are a predator of birds but there is no evidence that they are the reason for the declining bird population. In the UK garden birds are on the incline which would be counter to the general public argument that (paraphrasing here) “pet cats are killing all the birds”. The declining bird population as whole is put down to other factors such has changes to how we farm food, decreasing hedgerows, basically us humans ripping out the birds habitats and not our cats murdering them. Where I live small rodents are a pest, there is a large number of them and we want to control their number. Cats will stick to their learnt hunting behaviour. If they learn to hunt rodents when they are young then that’s what they will focus on hunting in their adult life’s. So in my area my cat mainly hunts rodents (comparing the numbers of mice she brings home compared to the number of birds she has). So as a kitten (and though out it’s life) play with ground based hunting toys instead of airborne toys. Get them a bell on their collar, and change it up ever now and then. Now... Am I going to say that this is the case in all countries? Nope. Let’s take Australia where the feral cat population is vastly growing which is causing harm to the native rodent population, but that’s been blamed on the feral population and are being culled and not the domestic cats living with humans. [0]: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/754432/UK_Wild_birds_1970-2017_FINAL__002_.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... [1]: https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/gardening-for-wildlife/animal-deterrents/cats-and-garden-birds/are-cats-causing-bird-declines/ https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/gardening-...

vinay427 7y ago

> I find the country also really values animal welfare as a whole. There are incredibly high and well-known subsidies for animal farming industries here, in addition to a blind eye often turned toward the treatment of said animals. It's arguable that most Swiss people value animal welfare more than many in the US, but saying that the country "really values" it when they opt to pay large sums of money for unnecessary animal suffering, both on the governmental and often individual level, sounds rather absurd to me.