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Why is it so difficult to admit Node.js did the package thing right, by keeping a local folder just for the app, isolation from other apps with zero effort?

by epx 7y ago

bdcravens 7y ago
It's worth noting that npm was developed independently of node https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/nodejs/erDWyS4xPw8 https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/nodejs/erDWyS4...
zbentley 7y ago
I think people conflate NPM-as-package-installation-system, which I would agree works very, very well (though a lot of that is the JavaScript module/import system in general and not NPM specifically), with two other things: NPM the web platform (which has had a lot of pretty severe security/community issues), and the JavaScript community's tendency to proliferate lots and lots of modules, many in competition, to solve problems that other languages' communities tend to solve either via reimplementation or via the standard library. I think any discussion about NPM or JS packaging compared to other package managers needs to discuss those things as orthogonal, largely unrelated concepts. Otherwise everyone just picks a favorite punching bag (e.g. left-pad) and talks past each other.
hjk05 7y ago
You comment has nothing to do with the article. Also I believe there’s a pep working on that, but again that has nothing to do with what does and does not go in the standard libs.
twic 7y ago
The right thing is a machine-global package cache that can hold multiple versions of each package, and loader machinery that can pick out the right ones. That means you only have to download and store each package once, and you never get interference between projects. NPM installs (and downloads?) a copy of each package for each project. This is the wrong thing to do.
thrower123 7y ago
The node way is certainly not the right way to handle dependencies, but it is laboring with a language that has absolutely zero batteries built in. Micropackages and sprawling dependency trees is a disaster. I'm cautiously hopeful on the direction that .Net Core is taking, with the major pieces of the old framework modularized as nuget packages.
deleted 7y ago
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Why is it so difficult to admit Node.js did the package thing right, by keeping a local folder just for the app, isolation from other apps with zero effort?

by epx 7y ago

Why is it so difficult to admit Node.js did the package thing right, by keeping a local folder just for the app, isolation from other apps with zero effort?

bdcravens 7y ago

It's worth noting that npm was developed independently of node https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/nodejs/erDWyS4xPw8 https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/nodejs/erDWyS4...

zbentley 7y ago

I think people conflate NPM-as-package-installation-system, which I would agree works very, very well (though a lot of that is the JavaScript module/import system in general and not NPM specifically), with two other things: NPM the web platform (which has had a lot of pretty severe security/community issues), and the JavaScript community's tendency to proliferate lots and lots of modules, many in competition, to solve problems that other languages' communities tend to solve either via reimplementation or via the standard library. I think any discussion about NPM or JS packaging compared to other package managers needs to discuss those things as orthogonal, largely unrelated concepts. Otherwise everyone just picks a favorite punching bag (e.g. left-pad) and talks past each other.

hjk05 7y ago

You comment has nothing to do with the article. Also I believe there’s a pep working on that, but again that has nothing to do with what does and does not go in the standard libs.

twic 7y ago

The right thing is a machine-global package cache that can hold multiple versions of each package, and loader machinery that can pick out the right ones. That means you only have to download and store each package once, and you never get interference between projects. NPM installs (and downloads?) a copy of each package for each project. This is the wrong thing to do.

thrower123 7y ago

The node way is certainly not the right way to handle dependencies, but it is laboring with a language that has absolutely zero batteries built in. Micropackages and sprawling dependency trees is a disaster. I'm cautiously hopeful on the direction that .Net Core is taking, with the major pieces of the old framework modularized as nuget packages.

deleted 7y ago

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