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> Well, increased water consumption has a lot of ecological problems as well. Well, using paper costs more water than using water itself. Also, the ecological

> Well, increased water consumption has a lot of ecological problems as well. Well, using paper costs more water than using water itself. Also, the ecological problems of using paper is far worse than using water alone[0][1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_paper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_paper [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet_paper#Environmental_considerations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet_paper#Environmental_con...

icebraining 7y ago
Absolutely, I wouldn't call TP "green" either.
fulafel 7y ago
Water has a really high heat capacity, meaning that it takes a lot of energy to heat. Intuitively, how much water do you think the toilet paper of one bathroom visit would heat, if usef as fuel? (Answer: much less than what you would use to replace TP)
- lostapathy 7y ago
  How much energy is used to make TP and transport it to your local store?
  - fulafel 7y ago
    Sure, there's that. Otoh the water will alo have a big energy footprint before heating in the avg municipal water service case. But these things don't really change the order of magnitude energy difference that exists in the setup. I got curious and did a napkin calculation. A sheet of TP weights 1.5 grams and you might generously use 10 sheets per visit. Assuming fuel properties of wood, that's 250 kJ of heat energy when burned. That's enough to heat only 1.5 kg of 10C mains water to body temperature.
    - lostapathy 7y ago
      There’s a lot of water and energy used turning trees into paper as well that this neglects. Also just thinking about how much energy is in the TP doesn’t account for shipping it around at all. I have no idea what the energy balance is, i just think this thread had vastly oversimplified. Even the water volume may or may not be an issue. If you live somewhere that water is precious it’s a much different concern than if your location uses surface water that just ends up back in the same river downstream after a trip through your plumbing, for example.

icebraining 7y ago

Absolutely, I wouldn't call TP "green" either.

fulafel 7y ago

Water has a really high heat capacity, meaning that it takes a lot of energy to heat. Intuitively, how much water do you think the toilet paper of one bathroom visit would heat, if usef as fuel? (Answer: much less than what you would use to replace TP)

lostapathy 7y ago
How much energy is used to make TP and transport it to your local store?
- fulafel 7y ago
  Sure, there's that. Otoh the water will alo have a big energy footprint before heating in the avg municipal water service case. But these things don't really change the order of magnitude energy difference that exists in the setup. I got curious and did a napkin calculation. A sheet of TP weights 1.5 grams and you might generously use 10 sheets per visit. Assuming fuel properties of wood, that's 250 kJ of heat energy when burned. That's enough to heat only 1.5 kg of 10C mains water to body temperature.
  - lostapathy 7y ago
    There’s a lot of water and energy used turning trees into paper as well that this neglects. Also just thinking about how much energy is in the TP doesn’t account for shipping it around at all. I have no idea what the energy balance is, i just think this thread had vastly oversimplified. Even the water volume may or may not be an issue. If you live somewhere that water is precious it’s a much different concern than if your location uses surface water that just ends up back in the same river downstream after a trip through your plumbing, for example.