4 ms·

Due to professional hacking, this website has been removed from the web

36 points by jasonhansel 7y ago

revvx 7y ago
For those curious about how the website looked before the removal, here's a Web Archive link: http://web.archive.org/web/20181122020124/https://kaiserpapers.org/ http://web.archive.org/web/20181122020124/https://kaiserpape...
- skunkworker 7y ago
  Is this just a static site? Or did it have known attack vectors like a insecure Wordpress plugin. Unfortunately this is giving me more questions than answers the longer I try to understand if this ‘hacking’ is just defacement or something more nefarious.
  - revvx 7y ago
    After checking the archived content on [1], as posted by Updtrenda, it seems that it was just a bunch of HTML files indeed. If this is really the case, I don't see why they can't just put it on a Torrent and distribute it. Or even host a mirror on S3 or Netlify. [1] http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://kaiserpapers.org/* http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://kaiserpapers.org/*
wheelerwj 7y ago
why is this site seemingly being targeted?
- whenchamenia 7y ago
  It is devoted to attacking a large shady medical insurance and care company. I have no doubt this ticked off an exec or investor who made this happen. I hope this rallies the streisand effect.
  - nerdponx 7y ago
    It won't. Mainstream news won't pick up the story. It will be buried as a curiosity.
- nerdponx 7y ago
  Presumably because the information it contained would make certain political candidates look bad.
- learc83 7y ago
  There's not evidence it actually is being targeted. And if it were they could just post the content somewhere more secure. The author is suggesting that somehow Joe Biden is behind it and has somehow convinced the Trump administration to not doing anything about it.
IIAOPSW 7y ago
>The government itself appears to be divided in opinion regarding medical issues involving Kaiser. Consequently, as before, even though we were then told by law enforcement who was doing the hacking, we can't count on assistance from our government to stop it. 1. That's fucking terrifying. 2. Russia? 3. Why is this website/foundation the target of politically motivated hacking? I'm ootl.
primitivesuave 7y ago
Am I missing something, or are they actually unable to reliably host a static site? There are so many viable options (Netlify, Github pages, even the classic wordpress.com). I highly doubt the claim of professional hacker - based on the grammar in their final note and the haphazard arrangement of information in the archived site, I'd speculate they had a gaping hole somewhere and never bothered to fix it.
- guitarbill 7y ago
  "Apache Server at kaiserpapers.org Port 443", so yeah, ~~for some reason they've decided to run their own Apache server~~ edit: this is likely incorrect, see child comment. There's nothing wrong with Apache per se, but it is a complex piece of software that requires maintenance. Of course, it's complete overkill for a static site, and asking for trouble.
  - detaro 7y ago
    It's shared hosting, going by the IP address, DNS server (hostgator), and the fact that there's tons of domains running on that IP.
    - guitarbill 7y ago
      Ah fair enough. I didn't want to do too much digging lest they do get someone to investigate
Uptrenda 7y ago
Damn the wayback machine has a terrible UX (no offence intended, its still profoundly useful. Could be easier to use though... Make it clear where other content is and possibly indicate how many links on a page are broken. IDK) Here's apparently how you see a list of other resources that it archived from the original site: http://web.archive.org/web/*/https://kaiserpapers.org/* http://web.archive.org/web/*/https://kaiserpapers.org/*
jasonhansel 7y ago
My question is: couldn't their "security firm" just make this a static site hosted on (say) S3?
rodmena 7y ago
So they simply say that they can not put their static content on github? Awesome. The security firm that handles their issues must be evaporated from planet.
jcrawfordor 7y ago
Unfortunately, comments like "Content that many people found useful, including medical professionals was found to be reworded and that in itself is dangerous." make me worry that one or more of the site's operators may not be on an entirely even keel. Kaiser is not without its controversies, but to believe that they are conspiring with Joe Biden to have the government disrupt this static website that largely just links to news reports and government record is... a bit of a stretch.
rgovostes 7y ago
This defies belief. In a meeting between a former Vice President and executives of an $80B/yr health care company, they authorized hacking of a 20-year-old, little-known site to reword unfavorable articles? The authors clearly feel that they have been wronged by KP and have spent decades fuming online trying to "expose" the organization, and failing to have done so, have fabricated an even bigger conspiracy involving unstoppable hackers and election tampering to silence them. If indeed they have a "professional security firm," they have almost certainly told them they can't help anymore to get an irritating client to go away.
jasonhansel 7y ago
A copy of the content, just in case the page gets HN'd, is below. The email addresses have been removed so that spambots don't pick them up. ------ KaiserPapers.org In Copyright Since September 11, 2000 This web site is in no manner affiliated with any Kaiser entity and the for profit Permanente May 13, 2019 Due to Professional hacking/vandalism of the Kaiser Papers and related sites which began when Kaiser Permanente representatives met with Joe Biden a few days ago and our professional security firm has been unable to handle this problem it has been decided that the web site and related sites should be removed from the web, at least for the time being. We apologize for the inconvenience. A similar problem took place during the last Presidential Campaign. It became a daily problem to repair the site at that time. Content that many people found useful, including medical professionals was found to be reworded and that in itself is dangerous. To avoid such problems this year, 2019, we are simply removing all content. We are not a political website nor organization, so whatever games, for whatever contracts anyone wants to secure with the Federal Government determined by the outcome of the election is something that we can all just sit back and watch. The government itself appears to be divided in opinion regarding medical issues involving Kaiser. Consequently, as before, even though we were then told by law enforcement who was doing the hacking, we can't count on assistance from our government to stop it. If you need assistance or suggestions pertaining to navigating the Kaiser system here are three email contacts you may write to: Vickie Travis Hillarie Levy Michele Monserett Ramos
lalaland1125 7y ago
The story presented by this website simply makes no sense. There is literally no way that anyone can "hack" a decently setup static site especially if you are being advised by "professional security firm". My guess is that either: A. The people hosting the site are simply doing this for attention and never actually got hacked. B. They did not actually consult a "professional security firm" and instead are hosting the site in a very silly way and probably got hacked randomly by a script kiddie.
antoncohen 7y ago
Paranoid conspiracy theorists run a paranoid conspiracy website, and are paranoid that a government is conspiring to hack their website. Also, it is (was) static HTML. It is a bit hard to believe a static HTML site has been hacked, and professional security firm can't prevent it from being hacked.
- bastawhiz 7y ago
  I don't find it hard to believe that it was hacked (if its software hasn't been updated in a decade or two, how many obvious exploits might be present?). It's hard to believe, however, that they had a true "professional" security firm employed, especially considering the site they were running.
chuckgreenman 7y ago
If you're a bit out of the loop like me, here's some stuff that I've looked up trying to understand. Kaiserpapers.org appears to be a compilation of articles criticising Kaiser Permanente. The note read in that light makes it seem like they feel Kaiser Permanente has hacked them. Had to do some research because I don't live in one of the areas that they serve but Kaiser seems to be a combination of a hospital network and an insurance company with doctors paid salaries rather than per-service. Seems like a good idea, not sure what criticisms are about, maybe someone who is more familiar with it can shed some light on the situation

36 points by jasonhansel 7y ago

For those curious about how the website looked before the removal, here's a Web Archive link: http://web.archive.org/web/20181122020124/https://kaiserpapers.org/ http://web.archive.org/web/20181122020124/https://kaiserpape...

skunkworker 7y ago
Is this just a static site? Or did it have known attack vectors like a insecure Wordpress plugin. Unfortunately this is giving me more questions than answers the longer I try to understand if this ‘hacking’ is just defacement or something more nefarious.
- revvx 7y ago
  After checking the archived content on [1], as posted by Updtrenda, it seems that it was just a bunch of HTML files indeed. If this is really the case, I don't see why they can't just put it on a Torrent and distribute it. Or even host a mirror on S3 or Netlify. [1] http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://kaiserpapers.org/* http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://kaiserpapers.org/*

wheelerwj 7y ago

why is this site seemingly being targeted?

whenchamenia 7y ago
It is devoted to attacking a large shady medical insurance and care company. I have no doubt this ticked off an exec or investor who made this happen. I hope this rallies the streisand effect.
- nerdponx 7y ago
  It won't. Mainstream news won't pick up the story. It will be buried as a curiosity.
nerdponx 7y ago
Presumably because the information it contained would make certain political candidates look bad.
learc83 7y ago
There's not evidence it actually is being targeted. And if it were they could just post the content somewhere more secure. The author is suggesting that somehow Joe Biden is behind it and has somehow convinced the Trump administration to not doing anything about it.

IIAOPSW 7y ago

>The government itself appears to be divided in opinion regarding medical issues involving Kaiser. Consequently, as before, even though we were then told by law enforcement who was doing the hacking, we can't count on assistance from our government to stop it. 1. That's fucking terrifying. 2. Russia? 3. Why is this website/foundation the target of politically motivated hacking? I'm ootl.

primitivesuave 7y ago

Am I missing something, or are they actually unable to reliably host a static site? There are so many viable options (Netlify, Github pages, even the classic wordpress.com). I highly doubt the claim of professional hacker - based on the grammar in their final note and the haphazard arrangement of information in the archived site, I'd speculate they had a gaping hole somewhere and never bothered to fix it.

guitarbill 7y ago
"Apache Server at kaiserpapers.org Port 443", so yeah, ~~for some reason they've decided to run their own Apache server~~ edit: this is likely incorrect, see child comment. There's nothing wrong with Apache per se, but it is a complex piece of software that requires maintenance. Of course, it's complete overkill for a static site, and asking for trouble.
- detaro 7y ago
  It's shared hosting, going by the IP address, DNS server (hostgator), and the fact that there's tons of domains running on that IP.
  - guitarbill 7y ago
    Ah fair enough. I didn't want to do too much digging lest they do get someone to investigate

Uptrenda 7y ago

Damn the wayback machine has a terrible UX (no offence intended, its still profoundly useful. Could be easier to use though... Make it clear where other content is and possibly indicate how many links on a page are broken. IDK) Here's apparently how you see a list of other resources that it archived from the original site: http://web.archive.org/web/*/https://kaiserpapers.org/* http://web.archive.org/web/*/https://kaiserpapers.org/*

jasonhansel 7y ago

My question is: couldn't their "security firm" just make this a static site hosted on (say) S3?

rodmena 7y ago

So they simply say that they can not put their static content on github? Awesome. The security firm that handles their issues must be evaporated from planet.

jcrawfordor 7y ago

Unfortunately, comments like "Content that many people found useful, including medical professionals was found to be reworded and that in itself is dangerous." make me worry that one or more of the site's operators may not be on an entirely even keel. Kaiser is not without its controversies, but to believe that they are conspiring with Joe Biden to have the government disrupt this static website that largely just links to news reports and government record is... a bit of a stretch.

rgovostes 7y ago

This defies belief. In a meeting between a former Vice President and executives of an $80B/yr health care company, they authorized hacking of a 20-year-old, little-known site to reword unfavorable articles? The authors clearly feel that they have been wronged by KP and have spent decades fuming online trying to "expose" the organization, and failing to have done so, have fabricated an even bigger conspiracy involving unstoppable hackers and election tampering to silence them. If indeed they have a "professional security firm," they have almost certainly told them they can't help anymore to get an irritating client to go away.

jasonhansel 7y ago

A copy of the content, just in case the page gets HN'd, is below. The email addresses have been removed so that spambots don't pick them up. ------ KaiserPapers.org In Copyright Since September 11, 2000 This web site is in no manner affiliated with any Kaiser entity and the for profit Permanente May 13, 2019 Due to Professional hacking/vandalism of the Kaiser Papers and related sites which began when Kaiser Permanente representatives met with Joe Biden a few days ago and our professional security firm has been unable to handle this problem it has been decided that the web site and related sites should be removed from the web, at least for the time being. We apologize for the inconvenience. A similar problem took place during the last Presidential Campaign. It became a daily problem to repair the site at that time. Content that many people found useful, including medical professionals was found to be reworded and that in itself is dangerous. To avoid such problems this year, 2019, we are simply removing all content. We are not a political website nor organization, so whatever games, for whatever contracts anyone wants to secure with the Federal Government determined by the outcome of the election is something that we can all just sit back and watch. The government itself appears to be divided in opinion regarding medical issues involving Kaiser. Consequently, as before, even though we were then told by law enforcement who was doing the hacking, we can't count on assistance from our government to stop it. If you need assistance or suggestions pertaining to navigating the Kaiser system here are three email contacts you may write to: Vickie Travis Hillarie Levy Michele Monserett Ramos

lalaland1125 7y ago

The story presented by this website simply makes no sense. There is literally no way that anyone can "hack" a decently setup static site especially if you are being advised by "professional security firm". My guess is that either: A. The people hosting the site are simply doing this for attention and never actually got hacked. B. They did not actually consult a "professional security firm" and instead are hosting the site in a very silly way and probably got hacked randomly by a script kiddie.

antoncohen 7y ago

Paranoid conspiracy theorists run a paranoid conspiracy website, and are paranoid that a government is conspiring to hack their website. Also, it is (was) static HTML. It is a bit hard to believe a static HTML site has been hacked, and professional security firm can't prevent it from being hacked.

bastawhiz 7y ago
I don't find it hard to believe that it was hacked (if its software hasn't been updated in a decade or two, how many obvious exploits might be present?). It's hard to believe, however, that they had a true "professional" security firm employed, especially considering the site they were running.

chuckgreenman 7y ago

If you're a bit out of the loop like me, here's some stuff that I've looked up trying to understand. Kaiserpapers.org appears to be a compilation of articles criticising Kaiser Permanente. The note read in that light makes it seem like they feel Kaiser Permanente has hacked them. Had to do some research because I don't live in one of the areas that they serve but Kaiser seems to be a combination of a hospital network and an insurance company with doctors paid salaries rather than per-service. Seems like a good idea, not sure what criticisms are about, maybe someone who is more familiar with it can shed some light on the situation