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Israeli firm linked to WhatsApp spyware attack faces lawsuit

79 points by onetimemanytime 7y ago

_bxg1 7y ago
Amnesty International donation page: https://www.amnesty.org/en/donate/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/donate/
- cvnyw 7y ago
  What's the track record of Amnesty International against Israel?
  - barking 7y ago
    It's an Israeli company not Israel the state that's facing the lawsuit
    - CrowFly 7y ago
      It's a UK company: > Three months ago, a majority stake in NSO was acquired by the London based firm Novalpina Capital, founded by the banker and philanthropist Stephen Peel. It appears eager to rehabilitate the controversial software company’s reputation and maintain its value.
  - dbuder 7y ago
    Constantly securing the release of Palestinian terrorists.
  - IfOnlyYouKnew 7y ago
    Seriously I had not even paid much or any attention on the "Israeli" part in the headline before reading your post. And even now, my takeaway is closer to "Israel is one of those tech startup hubs" than "the Israeli government is involved in a privacy scandal".
    - throwawaycanuck 7y ago
      Every other developed country has state sponsored hackers, is it really that hard to believe Israel does as well? I think your aloof defense of Israel is suspicious, given their track record for paying individuals to sway public discourse.
    - darkpuma 7y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Download_Valley https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Download_Valley > "Download Valley is a cluster of software companies in Israel, producing and delivering adware to be installed alongside downloads of other software.[1] The primary purpose is to monetize shareware and downloads. These software items are commonly browser toolbars, adware, browser hijackers, spyware, and malware. Another group of products are download managers, possibly designed to induce or trick the user to install adware, when downloading a piece of desired software or mobile app from a certain source. "
- sgregnt 7y ago
  I can't explain why this comment is not downvote, other than Antisemitism. USA is responsible for far more death and destruction of the whole countries like Lybia and Iraq yet, whenever Israel comes up people are so hostile.
i_am_proteus 7y ago
Suing the company which developed a tool rather than the organization which used the tool seems strange.
- seieste 7y ago
  I think there are three reasons it makes sense: 1. The company enabled several different organizations to spy on dissidents (it’s easier to sue one than many) 2. The company advertises its services to be used as such, and 3. It’s easier to sue a company than a country, and much easier to sue a company in Israel than to sue the UAE in a UAE court
- GavinMcG 7y ago
  I think it seems strange where we imagine that tools are neutral. But they aren't, necessarily, and especially if the organization/developers knew they were building something to be used unlawfully, it's reasonable to hold them accountable. Taxi rides are generally neutral, too, but if someone hops into your taxi, asks you to drive to the bank and wait, and tells you outright that they're going to rob the place, that makes you a getaway driver with a taxi, not a taxi driver who happens to have a guilty client.
  - testvox 7y ago
    But did they make it for an unlawful purpose? Most countries have legal provisions to allow police or foreign intelligence to hack into phones. Could they have been selling these tools for those purposes and someone misused them?
    - detaro 7y ago
      And should they have stopped once it became known it got misused? All interesting questions for a court and the public to ponder.
    - GavinMcG 7y ago
      Well that's partly why you file a lawsuit. If you have a reasonable belief that the answer to that is yes, a lawsuit provides a process for confirming whether and to what extent it's true.
London94089 7y ago
Moderators, this is a LONDON/UK company: > Three months ago, a majority stake in NSO was acquired by the London based firm Novalpina Capital, founded by the banker and philanthropist Stephen Peel. It appears eager to rehabilitate the controversial software company’s reputation and maintain its value. Please change the misleading title which will bring hateful people with an agenda out of the woodwork.
KenanSulayman 7y ago
I wonder how many agencies were aware of this vulnerability and have used it before any of this unfolded?
ddffre 7y ago
They should also sue some government agencies then, they are bunch of hypocrites.
amitport 7y ago
checkout https://stopusarmstomexico.org/u-s-gun-companies-post-record-exports/ https://stopusarmstomexico.org/u-s-gun-companies-post-record... "Trump’s State Department Trashes its Authority to Control Lethal Weapons Sales" should US gun manufacturers be sued for knowingly exporting to problematic countries? are they? (should they even be allowed to sell in the US? supplying a country with so little weapon oversight seems like negligence...) [please explain the down-votes, I really don't get it. I'm just saying this is an highly regulated military-equipment type export, and it seems strange to me that many care more about spyware than about things like missiles that are being sold around the world, often by a private regulated company to a not so perfect buyer (and governments never are)]
homonculus1 7y ago
Is this title gonna get censored too?
i_am_nomad 7y ago
It seems like Facebook/WhatsApp would have known this exploit was being used in the wild. With FB’s engineering talent (and budget), you’d think that there would be automated systems to flag suspicious patterns of malformed/unexpected JSON going around.
olliej 7y ago
I am sick the “lawful authority” excuse. In most of the countries involved in this, and plenty of others: hacking or arresting HRAs is lawful. In some, slavery is lawful. In general saying “we aren’t violating human rights because we’re not violating the law”, is not a meaningful arguments: * slavery was (and in some places is) legal * the holocaust was legal * Japanese interment camps were legal * the walk of tears (I think that was the name?) was legal * the destruction of parihaka was legal * gender discrimination: legal * race discrimination: legal Etc, etc Legal does not mean “right”, and hiding behind that when your product is clearly being used against HRAs is a deliberate attempt to hide responsibility.

_bxg1 7y ago

Amnesty International donation page: https://www.amnesty.org/en/donate/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/donate/

cvnyw 7y ago
What's the track record of Amnesty International against Israel?
- barking 7y ago
  It's an Israeli company not Israel the state that's facing the lawsuit
  - CrowFly 7y ago
    It's a UK company: > Three months ago, a majority stake in NSO was acquired by the London based firm Novalpina Capital, founded by the banker and philanthropist Stephen Peel. It appears eager to rehabilitate the controversial software company’s reputation and maintain its value.
- dbuder 7y ago
  Constantly securing the release of Palestinian terrorists.
- IfOnlyYouKnew 7y ago
  Seriously I had not even paid much or any attention on the "Israeli" part in the headline before reading your post. And even now, my takeaway is closer to "Israel is one of those tech startup hubs" than "the Israeli government is involved in a privacy scandal".
  - throwawaycanuck 7y ago
    Every other developed country has state sponsored hackers, is it really that hard to believe Israel does as well? I think your aloof defense of Israel is suspicious, given their track record for paying individuals to sway public discourse.
  - darkpuma 7y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Download_Valley https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Download_Valley > "Download Valley is a cluster of software companies in Israel, producing and delivering adware to be installed alongside downloads of other software.[1] The primary purpose is to monetize shareware and downloads. These software items are commonly browser toolbars, adware, browser hijackers, spyware, and malware. Another group of products are download managers, possibly designed to induce or trick the user to install adware, when downloading a piece of desired software or mobile app from a certain source. "
sgregnt 7y ago
I can't explain why this comment is not downvote, other than Antisemitism. USA is responsible for far more death and destruction of the whole countries like Lybia and Iraq yet, whenever Israel comes up people are so hostile.

i_am_proteus 7y ago

Suing the company which developed a tool rather than the organization which used the tool seems strange.

seieste 7y ago
I think there are three reasons it makes sense: 1. The company enabled several different organizations to spy on dissidents (it’s easier to sue one than many) 2. The company advertises its services to be used as such, and 3. It’s easier to sue a company than a country, and much easier to sue a company in Israel than to sue the UAE in a UAE court
GavinMcG 7y ago
I think it seems strange where we imagine that tools are neutral. But they aren't, necessarily, and especially if the organization/developers knew they were building something to be used unlawfully, it's reasonable to hold them accountable. Taxi rides are generally neutral, too, but if someone hops into your taxi, asks you to drive to the bank and wait, and tells you outright that they're going to rob the place, that makes you a getaway driver with a taxi, not a taxi driver who happens to have a guilty client.
- testvox 7y ago
  But did they make it for an unlawful purpose? Most countries have legal provisions to allow police or foreign intelligence to hack into phones. Could they have been selling these tools for those purposes and someone misused them?
  - detaro 7y ago
    And should they have stopped once it became known it got misused? All interesting questions for a court and the public to ponder.
  - GavinMcG 7y ago
    Well that's partly why you file a lawsuit. If you have a reasonable belief that the answer to that is yes, a lawsuit provides a process for confirming whether and to what extent it's true.

London94089 7y ago

Moderators, this is a LONDON/UK company: > Three months ago, a majority stake in NSO was acquired by the London based firm Novalpina Capital, founded by the banker and philanthropist Stephen Peel. It appears eager to rehabilitate the controversial software company’s reputation and maintain its value. Please change the misleading title which will bring hateful people with an agenda out of the woodwork.

KenanSulayman 7y ago

I wonder how many agencies were aware of this vulnerability and have used it before any of this unfolded?

ddffre 7y ago

They should also sue some government agencies then, they are bunch of hypocrites.

amitport 7y ago

checkout https://stopusarmstomexico.org/u-s-gun-companies-post-record-exports/ https://stopusarmstomexico.org/u-s-gun-companies-post-record... "Trump’s State Department Trashes its Authority to Control Lethal Weapons Sales" should US gun manufacturers be sued for knowingly exporting to problematic countries? are they? (should they even be allowed to sell in the US? supplying a country with so little weapon oversight seems like negligence...) [please explain the down-votes, I really don't get it. I'm just saying this is an highly regulated military-equipment type export, and it seems strange to me that many care more about spyware than about things like missiles that are being sold around the world, often by a private regulated company to a not so perfect buyer (and governments never are)]

homonculus1 7y ago

Is this title gonna get censored too?

i_am_nomad 7y ago

It seems like Facebook/WhatsApp would have known this exploit was being used in the wild. With FB’s engineering talent (and budget), you’d think that there would be automated systems to flag suspicious patterns of malformed/unexpected JSON going around.

olliej 7y ago

I am sick the “lawful authority” excuse. In most of the countries involved in this, and plenty of others: hacking or arresting HRAs is lawful. In some, slavery is lawful. In general saying “we aren’t violating human rights because we’re not violating the law”, is not a meaningful arguments: * slavery was (and in some places is) legal * the holocaust was legal * Japanese interment camps were legal * the walk of tears (I think that was the name?) was legal * the destruction of parihaka was legal * gender discrimination: legal * race discrimination: legal Etc, etc Legal does not mean “right”, and hiding behind that when your product is clearly being used against HRAs is a deliberate attempt to hide responsibility.