3 ms·

Illegal because they don’t have contracts and are paid below minimum wage.

by kabwj 7y ago

IfOnlyYouKnew 7y ago
Then maybe you should attach the “illegal” to the employment, and not to the people. People also aren’t “imported”. They aren’t cattle.
- TheAdamAndChe 7y ago
  People easily can be imported. I understand what you're trying to say, and having empathy for everyone is important, but it's also a easily possible to understand illegal immigration as a concept and still care about people. Illegal immigration does have negative impacts on the local population that need to be addressed, and shouldn't be ignored in an attempt to act like all forms of labor are equal.
  - threeseed 7y ago
    What are you talking about ? The issue was specifically around the EU where citizens are allowed to work in other member countries. It's not illegal and by any definition it's not imported.
    - TheAdamAndChe 7y ago
      The guidelines of this site specify that I should address the strongest interpretation of the argument. I felt the underlying message of empathy was more important than the semantics of illegal immigration versus legal. At least in America, the colloquial use of the phrase illegal immigration almost always discusses economic integration in a manner that exploits existing labor laws, which is what I believed the commenter above was speaking of. Again, squabbling over semantics is unimportant and uninteresting in my opinion.
    - kabwj 7y ago
      Of course they are imported... they come to Spain just to harvest olives and then leave. I’d call that “imported labour”.
      - threeseed 7y ago
        They are called "seasonal workers". And they aren't imported because they choose when and where to go. For example they are choosing not to go to the UK because of Brexit concerns.
  - simion314 7y ago
    If the work is illegal then why not complain about your greedy compatriots that don't use legal contracts and pay the taxes? I am sure that the government can do a few checks and find the illegal workers if this is not happening the problem is again with your country government and local corruption. If the work is legal but you are upset that this workers work on the cheap then do not use the word illegal.
    - TheAdamAndChe 7y ago
      What indicated to you that I don't complain about the employers as well?
threeseed 7y ago
It's not illegal to work for a job without a contract. That's ridiculous. And if it's below minimum wage then that this is a problem for that particular company. It's not illegal for people to work below the minimum wage if offered.
- icebraining 7y ago
  You're right, technically it's not illegal, it's impossible: a verbal agreement is still a contract. That said, I'd bet my wages those workers aren't declaring their income to the appropriate tax authorities, which is very much illegal.

Illegal because they don’t have contracts and are paid below minimum wage.

by kabwj 7y ago

Illegal because they don’t have contracts and are paid below minimum wage.

Then maybe you should attach the “illegal” to the employment, and not to the people. People also aren’t “imported”. They aren’t cattle.

TheAdamAndChe 7y ago
People easily can be imported. I understand what you're trying to say, and having empathy for everyone is important, but it's also a easily possible to understand illegal immigration as a concept and still care about people. Illegal immigration does have negative impacts on the local population that need to be addressed, and shouldn't be ignored in an attempt to act like all forms of labor are equal.
- threeseed 7y ago
  What are you talking about ? The issue was specifically around the EU where citizens are allowed to work in other member countries. It's not illegal and by any definition it's not imported.
  - TheAdamAndChe 7y ago
    The guidelines of this site specify that I should address the strongest interpretation of the argument. I felt the underlying message of empathy was more important than the semantics of illegal immigration versus legal. At least in America, the colloquial use of the phrase illegal immigration almost always discusses economic integration in a manner that exploits existing labor laws, which is what I believed the commenter above was speaking of. Again, squabbling over semantics is unimportant and uninteresting in my opinion.
  - kabwj 7y ago
    Of course they are imported... they come to Spain just to harvest olives and then leave. I’d call that “imported labour”.
    - threeseed 7y ago
      They are called "seasonal workers". And they aren't imported because they choose when and where to go. For example they are choosing not to go to the UK because of Brexit concerns.
- simion314 7y ago
  If the work is illegal then why not complain about your greedy compatriots that don't use legal contracts and pay the taxes? I am sure that the government can do a few checks and find the illegal workers if this is not happening the problem is again with your country government and local corruption. If the work is legal but you are upset that this workers work on the cheap then do not use the word illegal.
  - TheAdamAndChe 7y ago
    What indicated to you that I don't complain about the employers as well?

threeseed 7y ago

It's not illegal to work for a job without a contract. That's ridiculous. And if it's below minimum wage then that this is a problem for that particular company. It's not illegal for people to work below the minimum wage if offered.

icebraining 7y ago
You're right, technically it's not illegal, it's impossible: a verbal agreement is still a contract. That said, I'd bet my wages those workers aren't declaring their income to the appropriate tax authorities, which is very much illegal.