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> He reasoned through the problem, wrote the code, it ran perfectly the first time. I hired him. I get the overall sentiment, but come on, "I hired him" sounds

> He reasoned through the problem, wrote the code, it ran perfectly the first time. I hired him. I get the overall sentiment, but come on, "I hired him" sounds like self-absorbed anecdata - so this post is about how to quickly appeal to some manager dude on the interwebs? A more useful metric would be, did this hire survive the first two years, and what do the people around him have to say about his performance. > It’s funny how many people can’t edit text on any machine but their own How often does this person himself get thrown into random-ass editors and forced to quickly work through some rando algorithm while absolutely not forgetting to eloquently detail out loud their entire thought process? Self-absorbed, out of touch with how humans work.

notimetorelax 7y ago
When reading the article I was ready to accept some of practical advice, but lack of empathy makes me not want to listen to the author.
- AdrianB1 7y ago
  The value of an article does not come from the empathy of the author. For example, my physics manual was very cold describing the formula for acceleration, but I did not ignore it because of that.
  - TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
    Competence is not a Boolean, and hiring is not a physics problem. If you don't understand why you're hiring people, and what specific skills, psychological mindset and attitude, and abilities you're looking for - not assumed, but rationally chosen, preferably with some peer input - then you'll be bad at it. OP obviously wants waterfall programmers - give them a predigested problem of limited scope, set them loose, and pick up working code in $time_interval. That's actually fine for some jobs, but it's going to be a disaster in other contexts.
- jimhefferon 7y ago
  At the top he wrote something about putting on a flame suit.
skrebbel 7y ago
Bullshit. It'll go like this: Interviewer: here, a laptop with vi Applicant: I've never used vi Interviewer: just hit "i" to be dropped into insert mode, then just navigate with the arrows and use backspace like in any other editor. Ask me when you're ready to save and I'll teach you the magic incantation. Applicant: types away If you're not able to code in what's essentially just a test box then that's a useful thing for an interviewer to know. It's a strong indication that you don't fully grasp where the editor stops and the language begins, and unless you're applying for a junior role that's a negative sign.
- ubercow13 7y ago
  Have you seen some of the other comments in this thread? Seems like there's a good chance it would be more like: Interviewer: here, a laptop with vi Applicant: I've never used vi Interviewer: ....
  - unknownkadath 7y ago
    Applicant: I prefer emacs Interviewer: REPENT, SINNER!
    - MaxBarraclough 7y ago
      Eliminate My Application, Continue Searching
  - westmeal 7y ago
    vi vi vi is the number of the DEviL!
- inferiorhuman 7y ago
  just hit "i" to be dropped into insert mode, then just navigate with the arrows and use backspace like in any other editor. Yeah maybe. The default vi config that comes with FreeBSD will get out of insert mode if you use the arrow keys to go beyond the end of the line (and maybe some other situations I've forgotten). Editors are extremely personal, there's a pretty good reason that vi vs emacs is one of the eternal flame wars. I would absolutely expect a bit of discomfort and less proficiency with a different computer and a different keyboard. And, quite frankly, I'd be pretty put off by an interviewer who expected I'd hit the ground running with neither apprehension nor mistakes on someone else's computer.
codingdave 7y ago
> how to quickly appeal to some manager dude That is a great description of what an interview actually is. While your larger point is valid, you do have to get the job in the first place to have the opportunity to prove they were right to hire you. So you need to appeal to whomever you are talking to.
- trickstra 7y ago
  But the fact that it is being like that is the problem. It shouldn't be about who performs the most elaborate mating dance. This is a job and the performance of the project will be measurable and might have far-reaching consequences even for many people outside the company. None of the victims of the Equfax hack cares that the people on the job impressed their managers.
shshhdhs 7y ago
I agree, but I think the idea is “can they deal with the unexpected or new? How fast do they grok things” Which happens all the time with these new frameworks, tools, etc

notimetorelax 7y ago

When reading the article I was ready to accept some of practical advice, but lack of empathy makes me not want to listen to the author.

AdrianB1 7y ago
The value of an article does not come from the empathy of the author. For example, my physics manual was very cold describing the formula for acceleration, but I did not ignore it because of that.
- TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
  Competence is not a Boolean, and hiring is not a physics problem. If you don't understand why you're hiring people, and what specific skills, psychological mindset and attitude, and abilities you're looking for - not assumed, but rationally chosen, preferably with some peer input - then you'll be bad at it. OP obviously wants waterfall programmers - give them a predigested problem of limited scope, set them loose, and pick up working code in $time_interval. That's actually fine for some jobs, but it's going to be a disaster in other contexts.
jimhefferon 7y ago
At the top he wrote something about putting on a flame suit.

skrebbel 7y ago

Bullshit. It'll go like this: Interviewer: here, a laptop with vi Applicant: I've never used vi Interviewer: just hit "i" to be dropped into insert mode, then just navigate with the arrows and use backspace like in any other editor. Ask me when you're ready to save and I'll teach you the magic incantation. Applicant: types away If you're not able to code in what's essentially just a test box then that's a useful thing for an interviewer to know. It's a strong indication that you don't fully grasp where the editor stops and the language begins, and unless you're applying for a junior role that's a negative sign.

ubercow13 7y ago
Have you seen some of the other comments in this thread? Seems like there's a good chance it would be more like: Interviewer: here, a laptop with vi Applicant: I've never used vi Interviewer: ....
- unknownkadath 7y ago
  Applicant: I prefer emacs Interviewer: REPENT, SINNER!
  - MaxBarraclough 7y ago
    Eliminate My Application, Continue Searching
- westmeal 7y ago
  vi vi vi is the number of the DEviL!
inferiorhuman 7y ago
just hit "i" to be dropped into insert mode, then just navigate with the arrows and use backspace like in any other editor. Yeah maybe. The default vi config that comes with FreeBSD will get out of insert mode if you use the arrow keys to go beyond the end of the line (and maybe some other situations I've forgotten). Editors are extremely personal, there's a pretty good reason that vi vs emacs is one of the eternal flame wars. I would absolutely expect a bit of discomfort and less proficiency with a different computer and a different keyboard. And, quite frankly, I'd be pretty put off by an interviewer who expected I'd hit the ground running with neither apprehension nor mistakes on someone else's computer.

codingdave 7y ago

> how to quickly appeal to some manager dude That is a great description of what an interview actually is. While your larger point is valid, you do have to get the job in the first place to have the opportunity to prove they were right to hire you. So you need to appeal to whomever you are talking to.

trickstra 7y ago
But the fact that it is being like that is the problem. It shouldn't be about who performs the most elaborate mating dance. This is a job and the performance of the project will be measurable and might have far-reaching consequences even for many people outside the company. None of the victims of the Equfax hack cares that the people on the job impressed their managers.

shshhdhs 7y ago

I agree, but I think the idea is “can they deal with the unexpected or new? How fast do they grok things” Which happens all the time with these new frameworks, tools, etc