5 ms·

> About 14 percent of the university’s undergraduate class is part of a program called the Carolina Covenant, which provides debt-free, full financial aid packa

by swozey 7y ago

> About 14 percent of the university’s undergraduate class is part of a program called the Carolina Covenant, which provides debt-free, full financial aid packages to students who fall below 200 percent of the federal poverty level. That package includes nontuition room, board and living expenses that total about $13,402 in the university’s estimated cost of attendance next school year. Are you still required to combine both parents income (even if they're divorced and you're estranged from one or both of them) before you qualify if you're under 25 (23?)? When I was 19 I didn't qualify for any financial aid because my fathers income HAD to be included in my application even though he didn't contribute anything to me and my mother was on disability, they were divorced and I hadn't seem him in years. I believe he was in the 40-50s range and my mother was under $10k/yr. I was making around $10/hr working full time and attempting to put myself through about $40k of debt. No pell grants or anything. I couldn't afford a real school and dorms or any of that at all. I eventually just dropped out because working 8 hours a day and going to class and affording rent, etc wasn't exactly going my way. I feel like I rarely hear about this and it always makes me wonder if there was something more we could've done. I remember this distinctly though and my mother fighting back and forth with admissions. It just makes no sense to me.

briandear 7y ago
> Are you still required to combine both parents income (even if they're divorced and you're estranged from one or both of them) before you qualify? If either of them claim you as a dependent, then yes.
- tylerhou 7y ago
  IIRC not tax/dependency status; in order to be free from parents’ income you need to be above 24, emancipated from your parents, a ward of the court, etc.. source: https://www.fastweb.com/financial-aid/articles/federal-financial-aid-and-the-independent-student https://www.fastweb.com/financial-aid/articles/federal-finan...
  - throwaway287391 7y ago
    These criteria are really shitty for some people. My middle class parents spoiled me and paid for the entirety of my college tuition and expenses, but I had friends from families with similar income whose parents completely refused to pay for any college expenses, and they had to survive on whatever scholarships and student loans they could get, but couldn't get any FAFSA aid. I'm not sure what the alternative is, and I'm sure they were more privileged than many/most of the people who do qualify for FAFSA aid, but it still felt really unfair to me. I guess they should've gotten sham marriages to qualify as independent? (Why is marriage a qualifying criterion for independence? Seems really antiquated to me...)
  - pnutjam 7y ago
    Or married, I think.
    - LanceH 7y ago
      Married, yes. Veteran also works -- I qualified not to include my parent's income. But the $10k I made the year before put be above the threshold for a household of one. I think I got a state $500/year and that was it. Everything else was loans. It was a perverse position I was in during the 6 months between military service and returning to college. Any money I saved during that time was considered to be 100% applicable to that next year of college. So I basically had to deplete all savings before any aid or even loans were allowed to kick in. Incidentally, the GI Bill, which is often advertised as $xxx per month is pro-rated to the day.
- swozey 7y ago
  Are you saying that one divorced parent claiming me as dependent means that both of their incomes are automatically combined when applying, or that both likely claimed me as a dependent? I haven't been aware of where my father is since I was a teenager, so it's entirely possible that he was in fact claiming me still. The fact that that disqualified me from any assistance is pretty sad. I'm very lucky to be where I am right now. I recall us explaining this to admissions but there being no budge at all.
  - briandear 7y ago
    Your situation really sucked. However the reason that is that way is because the schools want to avoid financial aid fraud: a rich dad is “out of the picture” when in fact he isn’t — people use that strategy to get more financial aid. In your case, it was horrible. Getting classified as an independent student under the age of 24 is very difficult; it depends on the school’s financial aid administrator. Only .9% of students got an override. However, being married, a veteran, having legal dependents, or being an orphan are the only automatic ways to be considered independent for the FAFSA. If that were my situation, I would have joined the National Guard for two years: that makes you independent and gets you additional money from the GI Bill. However, that’s not for everyone. I’m sorry you had that situation. In your case, it was clearly unfair.
    - swozey 7y ago
      I saw that there is the ability for an Admissions person to do an override in a link posted in this thread, I was curious how often it was done as it wasn't recommended to me at all. So that makes sense. I was very close to joining the USMC/Army to deal with all of this. USCG/USAF (admittedly didn't try USNG) and everyone else were "full" back then if I didn't have a Bachelors. I graduated right after 9/11..
mamon 7y ago
>> fathers income HAD to be included in my application even though he didn't contribute anything to me and my mother was on disability, they were divorced and I hadn't seem him in years. I don't know how that works in US, but in my country you can sue your parent for child support payments until you reach the age of 26, if you are still in college. I mean: you sue them on your own behalf, since you're adult, the other parent does not need to participate.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- loganfrederick 7y ago
  Which country? I absolutely would've tried to use this option if I had known it existed/if it was available.
  - beauzero 7y ago
    The United States. https://www.yahoo.com/news/21-year-old-sues-parents-for-college-tuition-and-104767331362.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/21-year-old-sues-parents-for-coll...
daniel-cussen 7y ago
If financial aid helped everyone it should, it would just be called low- or no-tuition. But if schools admitted that, they would have to accept something they would rather not talk about: generous-sounding financial aid does not make jacking up tuition a victimless crime.
- rayiner 7y ago
  Why should financial aid help people who can afford to pay sticker?
  - Tostino 7y ago
    Why should "sticker" be as outrageous as it is currently?
    - barry-cotter 7y ago
      Why don’t I deserve a penthouse apartment in the centre of Dublin for €200 a month? Because suppliers want money and demanders are willing to provide it to get what they want.
      - Tostino 7y ago
        Yeah that's a pretty dumb argument. I'm talking about education which preferrably would not be subject to supply and demand forces as much as other markets.
        barry-cotter 7y ago
        If you want an education MOOCs, old textbooks and MIT OCW are cheap or free. If you want a degree that costs money because people want their stamped certificate of membership of the bourgeoisie.
        Tostino 7y ago
        Your talking to someone who has done very well for himself without a degree, not by choice. I couldn't afford community college in my day because I was unwilling to take on debt, while working 40 hours a week and living at home. I don't believe that is a fair way to treat students though. You shouldn't have to get in debt up to your eyeballs to compete in the job market. I was lucky I was naturally inquisitive and interested in learning all I could. Not everyone is though, and that's alright. If they learn better in a structured environment, I don't think that should preclude them from being educated.
tomohawk 7y ago
You need to go through process to be declared emancipated minor. You need to not be declared as a dependent on their taxes. https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/loans/student-loans/fafsa-guide-legally-emancipated/ https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/loans/student-loans/fafsa-gu...
- firstplacelast 7y ago
  Went through this process with my school and was continually denied. Had letters from relatives, a psychologist, and a school counselor and was not declared as a dependent on my dad's taxes throughout undergrad. I didn't live with or speak to my father for the entirety of undergrad and beyond...still didn't make a difference.
  - mixmastamyk 7y ago
    Grandparent is talking about a legal process, not letters from random folks.
    - djakjxnanjak 7y ago
      There’s nothing about getting emancipated that legally obligates schools to care.
      - d-sc 7y ago
        Federally, it helps and a lot of financial aid comes from the federal government.
no_wizard 7y ago
Fun fact, there's a loophole on this. Get married. I kid you not. I got married young (my choice, still together, love my wife, just for the record), and I was exempt from this. My jaw quite literally dropped because the year before I got married I had to pay full rate on school. So, if you're planning on tying the knot but are waiting to finish school, don't. it might cost you less.
neilv 7y ago
There's sometimes other options available, but people who most need them don't necessarily know about them. And there's also a lot of predatory elements, like near-worthless diploma mills, that people have to know to avoid. It sounds like you did the best you could, under the circumstances (even back-and-forth didn't work). I got turned down for financial aid that I needed for college (didn't even know I could try to appeal or argue it), and had to take a roundabout way to further education and credentials. In my case, I was the eldest of six kids, my family couldn't help at all with college, I was already pretty much on my own, I didn't have anyone advising me, and apparently that part of the system didn't work right that time. Thank goodness for community college, another part of the system, which I happened to hear of. Only ~$25 per credit hour (IIRC) while I worked in a store part-time. The community college had very dedicated instructors, and it also got me a lucky industry internship, with which I managed to support myself. I wouldn't recommend the community college low-status route, iff you have the chance to go to an elite school, where further opportunity doors are not only opened, but you're practically carried through many doors. If you're not going to an elite magical door-opening college anyway, and you can't afford the 4-year college experience, then maybe it makes sense to do 2 years for a community college before transferring for 2 more years (find someone at the school you plan to transfer to, who will talk with you about that, and get something official about transferable credits, in writing). (I eventually did get degrees from two fancy-pants schools, thanks in part to altruistic mentoring I was very lucky to receive. And also thanks to the willingness of the first fancy school to give me a chance.)
JamesBarney 7y ago
There is a process to declare that a parent isn't helping out financially but it's a little confusing. My grandmother knew about it because she's a lawyer, but there are also financial aid experts to help people navigate this system. You have to fill out some forms and get some people to sign some documents under oath that your dad isn't contributing.

by swozey 7y ago

briandear 7y ago

> Are you still required to combine both parents income (even if they're divorced and you're estranged from one or both of them) before you qualify? If either of them claim you as a dependent, then yes.

tylerhou 7y ago
IIRC not tax/dependency status; in order to be free from parents’ income you need to be above 24, emancipated from your parents, a ward of the court, etc.. source: https://www.fastweb.com/financial-aid/articles/federal-financial-aid-and-the-independent-student https://www.fastweb.com/financial-aid/articles/federal-finan...
- throwaway287391 7y ago
  These criteria are really shitty for some people. My middle class parents spoiled me and paid for the entirety of my college tuition and expenses, but I had friends from families with similar income whose parents completely refused to pay for any college expenses, and they had to survive on whatever scholarships and student loans they could get, but couldn't get any FAFSA aid. I'm not sure what the alternative is, and I'm sure they were more privileged than many/most of the people who do qualify for FAFSA aid, but it still felt really unfair to me. I guess they should've gotten sham marriages to qualify as independent? (Why is marriage a qualifying criterion for independence? Seems really antiquated to me...)
- pnutjam 7y ago
  Or married, I think.
  - LanceH 7y ago
    Married, yes. Veteran also works -- I qualified not to include my parent's income. But the $10k I made the year before put be above the threshold for a household of one. I think I got a state $500/year and that was it. Everything else was loans. It was a perverse position I was in during the 6 months between military service and returning to college. Any money I saved during that time was considered to be 100% applicable to that next year of college. So I basically had to deplete all savings before any aid or even loans were allowed to kick in. Incidentally, the GI Bill, which is often advertised as $xxx per month is pro-rated to the day.
swozey 7y ago
Are you saying that one divorced parent claiming me as dependent means that both of their incomes are automatically combined when applying, or that both likely claimed me as a dependent? I haven't been aware of where my father is since I was a teenager, so it's entirely possible that he was in fact claiming me still. The fact that that disqualified me from any assistance is pretty sad. I'm very lucky to be where I am right now. I recall us explaining this to admissions but there being no budge at all.
- briandear 7y ago
  Your situation really sucked. However the reason that is that way is because the schools want to avoid financial aid fraud: a rich dad is “out of the picture” when in fact he isn’t — people use that strategy to get more financial aid. In your case, it was horrible. Getting classified as an independent student under the age of 24 is very difficult; it depends on the school’s financial aid administrator. Only .9% of students got an override. However, being married, a veteran, having legal dependents, or being an orphan are the only automatic ways to be considered independent for the FAFSA. If that were my situation, I would have joined the National Guard for two years: that makes you independent and gets you additional money from the GI Bill. However, that’s not for everyone. I’m sorry you had that situation. In your case, it was clearly unfair.
  - swozey 7y ago
    I saw that there is the ability for an Admissions person to do an override in a link posted in this thread, I was curious how often it was done as it wasn't recommended to me at all. So that makes sense. I was very close to joining the USMC/Army to deal with all of this. USCG/USAF (admittedly didn't try USNG) and everyone else were "full" back then if I didn't have a Bachelors. I graduated right after 9/11..

mamon 7y ago

>> fathers income HAD to be included in my application even though he didn't contribute anything to me and my mother was on disability, they were divorced and I hadn't seem him in years. I don't know how that works in US, but in my country you can sue your parent for child support payments until you reach the age of 26, if you are still in college. I mean: you sue them on your own behalf, since you're adult, the other parent does not need to participate.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
loganfrederick 7y ago
Which country? I absolutely would've tried to use this option if I had known it existed/if it was available.
- beauzero 7y ago
  The United States. https://www.yahoo.com/news/21-year-old-sues-parents-for-college-tuition-and-104767331362.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/21-year-old-sues-parents-for-coll...

daniel-cussen 7y ago

If financial aid helped everyone it should, it would just be called low- or no-tuition. But if schools admitted that, they would have to accept something they would rather not talk about: generous-sounding financial aid does not make jacking up tuition a victimless crime.

rayiner 7y ago
Why should financial aid help people who can afford to pay sticker?
- Tostino 7y ago
  Why should "sticker" be as outrageous as it is currently?
  - barry-cotter 7y ago
    Why don’t I deserve a penthouse apartment in the centre of Dublin for €200 a month? Because suppliers want money and demanders are willing to provide it to get what they want.
    - Tostino 7y ago
      Yeah that's a pretty dumb argument. I'm talking about education which preferrably would not be subject to supply and demand forces as much as other markets.
      - barry-cotter 7y ago
        If you want an education MOOCs, old textbooks and MIT OCW are cheap or free. If you want a degree that costs money because people want their stamped certificate of membership of the bourgeoisie.
        Tostino 7y ago
        Your talking to someone who has done very well for himself without a degree, not by choice. I couldn't afford community college in my day because I was unwilling to take on debt, while working 40 hours a week and living at home. I don't believe that is a fair way to treat students though. You shouldn't have to get in debt up to your eyeballs to compete in the job market. I was lucky I was naturally inquisitive and interested in learning all I could. Not everyone is though, and that's alright. If they learn better in a structured environment, I don't think that should preclude them from being educated.

tomohawk 7y ago

You need to go through process to be declared emancipated minor. You need to not be declared as a dependent on their taxes. https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/loans/student-loans/fafsa-guide-legally-emancipated/ https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/loans/student-loans/fafsa-gu...

firstplacelast 7y ago
Went through this process with my school and was continually denied. Had letters from relatives, a psychologist, and a school counselor and was not declared as a dependent on my dad's taxes throughout undergrad. I didn't live with or speak to my father for the entirety of undergrad and beyond...still didn't make a difference.
- mixmastamyk 7y ago
  Grandparent is talking about a legal process, not letters from random folks.
  - djakjxnanjak 7y ago
    There’s nothing about getting emancipated that legally obligates schools to care.
    - d-sc 7y ago
      Federally, it helps and a lot of financial aid comes from the federal government.

no_wizard 7y ago

Fun fact, there's a loophole on this. Get married. I kid you not. I got married young (my choice, still together, love my wife, just for the record), and I was exempt from this. My jaw quite literally dropped because the year before I got married I had to pay full rate on school. So, if you're planning on tying the knot but are waiting to finish school, don't. it might cost you less.

neilv 7y ago

There's sometimes other options available, but people who most need them don't necessarily know about them. And there's also a lot of predatory elements, like near-worthless diploma mills, that people have to know to avoid. It sounds like you did the best you could, under the circumstances (even back-and-forth didn't work). I got turned down for financial aid that I needed for college (didn't even know I could try to appeal or argue it), and had to take a roundabout way to further education and credentials. In my case, I was the eldest of six kids, my family couldn't help at all with college, I was already pretty much on my own, I didn't have anyone advising me, and apparently that part of the system didn't work right that time. Thank goodness for community college, another part of the system, which I happened to hear of. Only ~$25 per credit hour (IIRC) while I worked in a store part-time. The community college had very dedicated instructors, and it also got me a lucky industry internship, with which I managed to support myself. I wouldn't recommend the community college low-status route, iff you have the chance to go to an elite school, where further opportunity doors are not only opened, but you're practically carried through many doors. If you're not going to an elite magical door-opening college anyway, and you can't afford the 4-year college experience, then maybe it makes sense to do 2 years for a community college before transferring for 2 more years (find someone at the school you plan to transfer to, who will talk with you about that, and get something official about transferable credits, in writing). (I eventually did get degrees from two fancy-pants schools, thanks in part to altruistic mentoring I was very lucky to receive. And also thanks to the willingness of the first fancy school to give me a chance.)

JamesBarney 7y ago

There is a process to declare that a parent isn't helping out financially but it's a little confusing. My grandmother knew about it because she's a lawyer, but there are also financial aid experts to help people navigate this system. You have to fill out some forms and get some people to sign some documents under oath that your dad isn't contributing.