4 ms·

More than 50% of respondents said Arabic numerals should not be taught in school

15 points by howard941 7y ago

writepub 7y ago
1. The numerals are actually Indian [1], that Arabic traders picked up and propagated elsewhere. I don't think it changes the findings as I expect the respondents to have answered in a similar fashion. 2. I don't believe this is evidence of bigotry. If a similar survey were to be taken in say Saudi Arabia, asking if American Numerals need to be taught in madrasass, it'd likely have a similar response. I think this entire exercise is setup with an agenda to apparently uncover bigotry in the US, when the actual science behind it is questionable. Specious sounding, misleading questions are often answered inaccurately. Clearly, the question never educated the audience on the fact that Arabic Numerals are in fact regular numbers in general use. The whole survey is intending to exploit unawareness on the definition of "Arabic Numerals" [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu–Arabic_numeral_system https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu–Arabic_numeral_system
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- olliej 7y ago
  I mean in answer to 1: The original origin isn't super relevant as they are named arabic numerals in all common vernacular. 2. it's more an evidence of ignorance, coupled with a automatic response to also things that sound foreign that results in not looking up what they're voting on. Which is exhibited in the other poll on Lemaitre. Finally: I would argue it's an random poll on the internet, which are horrifyingly inaccurate in general, andI suspect [without having any actual studies to support it] attract both the people with more extreme/bias feelings, and trolls.
- patrick5415 7y ago
  I didn’t connect the dots to bigotry. I thought this was one of those “see how uneducated people are” kind of things.
  - mimixco 7y ago
    It's trying to show evidence that some (many?) people can be triggered by certain words like Arab/ic. The Lamaître example is much harder. You'd have to be a physics gearhead to know that one. (He was mentioned in a book I just finished yesterday, lol.)
- ebg13 7y ago
  > I don't believe this is evidence of bigotry. If a similar survey were to be taken in say Saudi Arabia, asking if American Numerals need to be taught in madrasass, it'd likely have a similar response. What do you think bigotry is if not being opposed to something for reasons other than its own merit? The unbigoted answer if you don't know what Arabic Numerals means is the third option, "I don't know/No opinion".
  - writepub 7y ago
    > What do you think bigotry is if not being opposed to something for reasons other than its own merit? Opposition to things for lack of awareness in itself isn't bigotry. Opposition because of hate of something you somewhat understand/misunderstand is bigotry. I'd vote NO to "Should we learn Martian Numerals", because I do not know what martian numerals are, not because I hate martians
    - ebg13 7y ago
      > I'd vote NO to "Should we learn Martian Numerals", because I do not know what martian numerals are Voting no because you don't understand something is expressing hate for things that you don't understand. The unbigoted answer would be "I don't know/No opinion".
      - writepub 7y ago
        > Voting no because you don't understand something is expressing hate for things that you don't understand It's a stretch to call it "hate". I mean, as long as we're playing with words, maybe you can classify "No opinion" as masked hate". A No vote IS NOT BIGOTRY. I like Chocolate ice cream more than Vanilla, and would vote NO on a school survey asking what flavor to serve in the cafeteria. I'm not bigoted against Vanilla
        ebg13 7y ago
        > I like Chocolate ice cream more than Vanilla This is not analogous unless you actually think that schools should not teach numerals or if the only reason you like chocolate is because you don't know what vanilla is. Choosing between two things by preference is also not analogous to choosing yes or no for one thing. > A No vote IS NOT BIGOTRY. It is IF you vote no BECAUSE you don't understand. That's called xenophobia. If you don't have a note from a psychiatrist excusing your behavior because of a medical condition, xenophobia is bigotry. Bigotry against vanilla and Martians, it turns out, is not considered to be a big deal (yet) so you're probably safe.
Kuraj 7y ago
Interestingly, another question mentioned in the article - "Should schools in America teach the creation theory of Catholic priest Georges Lemaitre as part of their science curriculum?" - yielded similar results :-)
- ebg13 7y ago
  I think you could plausibly still call it bigotry even if the thing you thought you were voting on deserves to be voted on that way if it turns out that you were actually supposed to be voting on something else and you ended up voting the wrong way because of a kneejerk reaction to the wording. With that said, this example is substantively different because "creation theory" is a term that has a very different meaning in common parlance than the one intended here. "Arabic numerals" has no confounding information other than the mere fact that they're being called Arabic.
  - thecabinet 7y ago
    “They are uneducated, backwards, mouth-breathing bigots! My tribe was tricked by using words that we have a negative reaction to.” Oh wait.
    - ebg13 7y ago
      Yes basically.
rjohnk 7y ago
Reminds me of someone going around college campuses asking whether or not we should ban Dihydrogen Oxide.
- anoncake 7y ago
  It also works with abolishing female suffrage.
nippler 7y ago
LMFAO
- yhoneycomb 7y ago
  These are the high quality comments and submissions I come here for
aaron695 7y ago
Meh. It's a question designed for false outrage. Should Thai numbers be taught in school? No. You can. But I see no reason why they should. Arabic numbers are written differently, so it's a confusing question. Wow you've created division through confusion, and you feel smart at the same time. Congrats.

15 points by howard941 7y ago

1. The numerals are actually Indian [1], that Arabic traders picked up and propagated elsewhere. I don't think it changes the findings as I expect the respondents to have answered in a similar fashion. 2. I don't believe this is evidence of bigotry. If a similar survey were to be taken in say Saudi Arabia, asking if American Numerals need to be taught in madrasass, it'd likely have a similar response. I think this entire exercise is setup with an agenda to apparently uncover bigotry in the US, when the actual science behind it is questionable. Specious sounding, misleading questions are often answered inaccurately. Clearly, the question never educated the audience on the fact that Arabic Numerals are in fact regular numbers in general use. The whole survey is intending to exploit unawareness on the definition of "Arabic Numerals" [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu–Arabic_numeral_system https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu–Arabic_numeral_system

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
olliej 7y ago
I mean in answer to 1: The original origin isn't super relevant as they are named arabic numerals in all common vernacular. 2. it's more an evidence of ignorance, coupled with a automatic response to also things that sound foreign that results in not looking up what they're voting on. Which is exhibited in the other poll on Lemaitre. Finally: I would argue it's an random poll on the internet, which are horrifyingly inaccurate in general, andI suspect [without having any actual studies to support it] attract both the people with more extreme/bias feelings, and trolls.
patrick5415 7y ago
I didn’t connect the dots to bigotry. I thought this was one of those “see how uneducated people are” kind of things.
- mimixco 7y ago
  It's trying to show evidence that some (many?) people can be triggered by certain words like Arab/ic. The Lamaître example is much harder. You'd have to be a physics gearhead to know that one. (He was mentioned in a book I just finished yesterday, lol.)
ebg13 7y ago
> I don't believe this is evidence of bigotry. If a similar survey were to be taken in say Saudi Arabia, asking if American Numerals need to be taught in madrasass, it'd likely have a similar response. What do you think bigotry is if not being opposed to something for reasons other than its own merit? The unbigoted answer if you don't know what Arabic Numerals means is the third option, "I don't know/No opinion".
- writepub 7y ago
  > What do you think bigotry is if not being opposed to something for reasons other than its own merit? Opposition to things for lack of awareness in itself isn't bigotry. Opposition because of hate of something you somewhat understand/misunderstand is bigotry. I'd vote NO to "Should we learn Martian Numerals", because I do not know what martian numerals are, not because I hate martians
  - ebg13 7y ago
    > I'd vote NO to "Should we learn Martian Numerals", because I do not know what martian numerals are Voting no because you don't understand something is expressing hate for things that you don't understand. The unbigoted answer would be "I don't know/No opinion".
    - writepub 7y ago
      > Voting no because you don't understand something is expressing hate for things that you don't understand It's a stretch to call it "hate". I mean, as long as we're playing with words, maybe you can classify "No opinion" as masked hate". A No vote IS NOT BIGOTRY. I like Chocolate ice cream more than Vanilla, and would vote NO on a school survey asking what flavor to serve in the cafeteria. I'm not bigoted against Vanilla
      - ebg13 7y ago
        > I like Chocolate ice cream more than Vanilla This is not analogous unless you actually think that schools should not teach numerals or if the only reason you like chocolate is because you don't know what vanilla is. Choosing between two things by preference is also not analogous to choosing yes or no for one thing. > A No vote IS NOT BIGOTRY. It is IF you vote no BECAUSE you don't understand. That's called xenophobia. If you don't have a note from a psychiatrist excusing your behavior because of a medical condition, xenophobia is bigotry. Bigotry against vanilla and Martians, it turns out, is not considered to be a big deal (yet) so you're probably safe.

Kuraj 7y ago

Interestingly, another question mentioned in the article - "Should schools in America teach the creation theory of Catholic priest Georges Lemaitre as part of their science curriculum?" - yielded similar results :-)

ebg13 7y ago
I think you could plausibly still call it bigotry even if the thing you thought you were voting on deserves to be voted on that way if it turns out that you were actually supposed to be voting on something else and you ended up voting the wrong way because of a kneejerk reaction to the wording. With that said, this example is substantively different because "creation theory" is a term that has a very different meaning in common parlance than the one intended here. "Arabic numerals" has no confounding information other than the mere fact that they're being called Arabic.
- thecabinet 7y ago
  “They are uneducated, backwards, mouth-breathing bigots! My tribe was tricked by using words that we have a negative reaction to.” Oh wait.
  - ebg13 7y ago
    Yes basically.

rjohnk 7y ago

Reminds me of someone going around college campuses asking whether or not we should ban Dihydrogen Oxide.

anoncake 7y ago
It also works with abolishing female suffrage.

nippler 7y ago

LMFAO

yhoneycomb 7y ago
These are the high quality comments and submissions I come here for

aaron695 7y ago

Meh. It's a question designed for false outrage. Should Thai numbers be taught in school? No. You can. But I see no reason why they should. Arabic numbers are written differently, so it's a confusing question. Wow you've created division through confusion, and you feel smart at the same time. Congrats.