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There is a homeless epidemic. Anyone who lives in the US can see it. But these issues are being closely tracked and discussed widely in political problem solvin

by throw2016 7y ago

There is a homeless epidemic. Anyone who lives in the US can see it. But these issues are being closely tracked and discussed widely in political problem solving contexts, and HN is more of an observer reacting to the most extreme examples that make news usually with very little empathy focused mainly on the consequences to others, so the discussions are weirdly 'disconnected' and stuck in 'first principles'. Look at every single homeless discussion on HN over the last 5 years, its homeless people are bums, weirdoes who enjoy living in poverty without homes or people who are 'choosing this lifestyle' based on anecdotal evidence mostly focused on how they negatively impact the commentators life, untill the next article. Is having this same discussion over and over again helpful to anyone? The software community used to be associated with freedom, liberty and not being jerks, more connected to the human experience and with empathy. Now they build surveillance systems, are increasingly authoritarian in their outlook and are snarky about others suffering. There may be a serious problem of homelessness but it seems this absence of empathy is a much more serious problem for any society leaving it unequal to any social challenge.

closeparen 7y ago
It’s easy to preach empathy from a leafy suburb. I certainly used to. When you are actually inhaling piss, stepping over feces, and weaving through tents every time you go outside, the situation is a bit different. Much of HN lives in urban SF and moves around the city without a glass and steel cage. In that light, homelessness moves down Maslow’s hierarchy from a moral reasoning problem to a visceral disgust/fear, a threat to the safety and dignity of home. It’s one thing to be “against” mass incarceration and the criminalization of the poor, another to be okay with zero police response to your own assault/burglary. It’s one thing to be pro legalization, another to be okay with street dealers on your block. One thing to believe homeless people have a right to go where they please, another to stay committed when they decide to camp at your doorstep. Maybe I am the only fake/uncommitted liberal but I get the sense that this kind of right-shifting after a few years in SF is not uncommon.
- the_snooze 7y ago
  Indeed, I feel the Bay Area has made me more hard-hearted and conservative when it comes to the homeless over years. I'm happy to donate to local charities that try to give them the help they need, but it's best for me to keep my distance from street folks day-to-day, as they produce in me a deep instinctive threat response with their smell and unpredictable behavior.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- tamalesfan 7y ago
  > I get the sense that this kind of right-shifting after a few years in SF is not uncommon. I'll believe it when it shows up in voting behavior. Nothing is going to improve until you change who you elect. Nothing at all. FYI; someone camps out on my doorstep they're gone with one call; no debate. Your "homeless" problem is not a nation wide phenomena. This is you; the government you chose, the policies you voted for. No one else is at fault for this. It's you. Look around at what you made.
- funkjunky 7y ago
  You're not the only one. The daily grind of dealing with this shit on the streets and homeless/muggers on muni is giving me a noticeable rightward shift from my typically progressive politics. And I used to BE homeless! My homeless friends in Berkeley pine about the good old days before the nuts, tweakers, dope fiends, and dirtbags started to multiply and swarm the community. If HOMELESS people are complaining about the homeless people in your city, you have a big problem. Anecdotally, a crazy homeless lady was stabbing random people with scissors in my neighborhood last year, and I just checked up on what happened with her. Charges reduced to misdemeanors and set loose back on the streets. Meanwhile uppity rich liberals complain about police treatment of the homeless, and launch anonymous opposition to shelters and new housing development when they come to their neighborhoods. That basically sums up everything going wrong here from my perspective.
  - conanbatt 7y ago
    There's a homeless NIMBYISM joke around here somewhere.
homeless_sad 7y ago
The software community used to be associated with freedom, liberty and not being jerks, more connected to the human experience and with empathy. Now they build surveillance systems, are increasingly authoritarian in their outlook and are snarky about others suffering. There may be a serious problem of homelessness but it seems this absence of empathy is a much more serious problem for any society leaving it unequal to any social challenge. This is a good time to remember that Steve Bannon was funded by Bob Mercer specifically to use Breitbart to target young tech employees (mostly white men), to radicalize them into authoritarian conservatism. (Prager U, IJR, Fox, Epoch Times, Daily Caller etc all do this along with Breitbart now.) https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/talkingtech/2017/07/18/steve-bannon-learned-harness-troll-army-world-warcraft/489713001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/talkingtech/2017/07/18/s... Bannon saw the software community as a group of people who could be harnessed for partisan ends, and persuaded Mercer that he could get them to side with rightwing billionaires and drop any empathy. And he did a pretty good job of it. Mercer's investment was worth it.

closeparen 7y ago

It’s easy to preach empathy from a leafy suburb. I certainly used to. When you are actually inhaling piss, stepping over feces, and weaving through tents every time you go outside, the situation is a bit different. Much of HN lives in urban SF and moves around the city without a glass and steel cage. In that light, homelessness moves down Maslow’s hierarchy from a moral reasoning problem to a visceral disgust/fear, a threat to the safety and dignity of home. It’s one thing to be “against” mass incarceration and the criminalization of the poor, another to be okay with zero police response to your own assault/burglary. It’s one thing to be pro legalization, another to be okay with street dealers on your block. One thing to believe homeless people have a right to go where they please, another to stay committed when they decide to camp at your doorstep. Maybe I am the only fake/uncommitted liberal but I get the sense that this kind of right-shifting after a few years in SF is not uncommon.

the_snooze 7y ago
Indeed, I feel the Bay Area has made me more hard-hearted and conservative when it comes to the homeless over years. I'm happy to donate to local charities that try to give them the help they need, but it's best for me to keep my distance from street folks day-to-day, as they produce in me a deep instinctive threat response with their smell and unpredictable behavior.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
tamalesfan 7y ago
> I get the sense that this kind of right-shifting after a few years in SF is not uncommon. I'll believe it when it shows up in voting behavior. Nothing is going to improve until you change who you elect. Nothing at all. FYI; someone camps out on my doorstep they're gone with one call; no debate. Your "homeless" problem is not a nation wide phenomena. This is you; the government you chose, the policies you voted for. No one else is at fault for this. It's you. Look around at what you made.
funkjunky 7y ago
You're not the only one. The daily grind of dealing with this shit on the streets and homeless/muggers on muni is giving me a noticeable rightward shift from my typically progressive politics. And I used to BE homeless! My homeless friends in Berkeley pine about the good old days before the nuts, tweakers, dope fiends, and dirtbags started to multiply and swarm the community. If HOMELESS people are complaining about the homeless people in your city, you have a big problem. Anecdotally, a crazy homeless lady was stabbing random people with scissors in my neighborhood last year, and I just checked up on what happened with her. Charges reduced to misdemeanors and set loose back on the streets. Meanwhile uppity rich liberals complain about police treatment of the homeless, and launch anonymous opposition to shelters and new housing development when they come to their neighborhoods. That basically sums up everything going wrong here from my perspective.
- conanbatt 7y ago
  There's a homeless NIMBYISM joke around here somewhere.

homeless_sad 7y ago

The software community used to be associated with freedom, liberty and not being jerks, more connected to the human experience and with empathy. Now they build surveillance systems, are increasingly authoritarian in their outlook and are snarky about others suffering. There may be a serious problem of homelessness but it seems this absence of empathy is a much more serious problem for any society leaving it unequal to any social challenge. This is a good time to remember that Steve Bannon was funded by Bob Mercer specifically to use Breitbart to target young tech employees (mostly white men), to radicalize them into authoritarian conservatism. (Prager U, IJR, Fox, Epoch Times, Daily Caller etc all do this along with Breitbart now.) https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/talkingtech/2017/07/18/steve-bannon-learned-harness-troll-army-world-warcraft/489713001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/talkingtech/2017/07/18/s... Bannon saw the software community as a group of people who could be harnessed for partisan ends, and persuaded Mercer that he could get them to side with rightwing billionaires and drop any empathy. And he did a pretty good job of it. Mercer's investment was worth it.