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Simply put, what the government describes as normal (or ideal) is far different than what the alcohol-consuming populace considers normal. (Side thought: Some

Simply put, what the government describes as normal (or ideal) is far different than what the alcohol-consuming populace considers normal. (Side thought: Some of the risks in that article are suspect. STDs and domestic violence? Those are reflections of the individuals using the drug, not the drug itself.)

dpark 7y ago
This isn’t the case of the CDC describing what should be normal. I quoted a statistic about actual consumption to contrast the anecdotal claim that binge drinking up to 5 times/week is “typical”. Now, if you don’t like the standard definition of “binge drinking” that’s fine. 40 beers/week is still very, very far from typical. Edit: I don't find the risks to be particularly suspect. Drinking lowers inhibitions and reduces ability to engage in critical thinking. Drunk people regularly do stuff they regret later, ranging from saying embarrassing things to driving intoxicated to getting into physical fights with strangers, friends, and partners. Certainly the person having unprotected sex or assaulting their partner is responsible for their actions, but alcohol also makes those actions more likely.
- abstractbarista 7y ago
  Certainly agree that 5x a week isn't normal or generally healthy. Risk-takers and mean people are more commonly heavy consumers of alcohol. They like the feeling as it eggs them on and self-justifies their actions. But this does not mean that heavy consumers of alcohol are uncontrollably pushed to emulate the former. Basically, the bad folks always ruin it for the docile rest of us.
  - dpark 7y ago
    > Basically, the bad folks always ruin it for the docile rest of us. To some extent, yes. But those who want to normalize and justify their drinking also wish to absolve alcohol of all association with these things even though alcohol absolutely increases their incidence. You see the same bias in people who want to believe that drinking moderately is healthier than abstaining. There's nothing actually supporting this, but the few flawed studies that show some minor benefit get published over and over in the news because it's what people want to hear. In reality once you filter out people who abstain specifically because of their health, all cause mortality goes up with any level of drinking.
- P_I_Staker 7y ago
  I was leaving plenty of room on the high end. In much of the USA, people would not be shocked by a young person who exhibited these behaviors, unless you mapped it out for them (then it starts to sink in). I guess there's some poor choice of words here. What was meant is "not abnormal or troubling" to much of the population. > 40 beers/week is still very, very far from typical. I don't know that it's as far as you think. I based much of my comment on a documentary from the UK that matches my observations. The guy found when he actually counted correctly he was over 100 units (~30-50 beers), yet no one considered him an alcoholic. I've noticed similar trends if you look at "social drinkers" and do accurate counting. 100% agree about the risk factors being reasonable. You're more likely to be the victim and perpetrator of crime, or be injured.
P_I_Staker 7y ago
Well put. I should have specified that I was talking about people who drink regularly. Looking at large populations aren't that useful here, as many people simply opt out, because they're sick, religion, or just don't like it. While I agree that the some of the risks are suspect, I tend to think the question is "how much risk are you willing to accept"? IMO it's appropriate to consider things like STDs, injury, violence, abuse, and incarceration as risks. These problems are common among drinkers due to the heavy impairment alcohol causes.

dpark 7y ago

This isn’t the case of the CDC describing what should be normal. I quoted a statistic about actual consumption to contrast the anecdotal claim that binge drinking up to 5 times/week is “typical”. Now, if you don’t like the standard definition of “binge drinking” that’s fine. 40 beers/week is still very, very far from typical. Edit: I don't find the risks to be particularly suspect. Drinking lowers inhibitions and reduces ability to engage in critical thinking. Drunk people regularly do stuff they regret later, ranging from saying embarrassing things to driving intoxicated to getting into physical fights with strangers, friends, and partners. Certainly the person having unprotected sex or assaulting their partner is responsible for their actions, but alcohol also makes those actions more likely.

abstractbarista 7y ago
Certainly agree that 5x a week isn't normal or generally healthy. Risk-takers and mean people are more commonly heavy consumers of alcohol. They like the feeling as it eggs them on and self-justifies their actions. But this does not mean that heavy consumers of alcohol are uncontrollably pushed to emulate the former. Basically, the bad folks always ruin it for the docile rest of us.
- dpark 7y ago
  > Basically, the bad folks always ruin it for the docile rest of us. To some extent, yes. But those who want to normalize and justify their drinking also wish to absolve alcohol of all association with these things even though alcohol absolutely increases their incidence. You see the same bias in people who want to believe that drinking moderately is healthier than abstaining. There's nothing actually supporting this, but the few flawed studies that show some minor benefit get published over and over in the news because it's what people want to hear. In reality once you filter out people who abstain specifically because of their health, all cause mortality goes up with any level of drinking.
P_I_Staker 7y ago
I was leaving plenty of room on the high end. In much of the USA, people would not be shocked by a young person who exhibited these behaviors, unless you mapped it out for them (then it starts to sink in). I guess there's some poor choice of words here. What was meant is "not abnormal or troubling" to much of the population. > 40 beers/week is still very, very far from typical. I don't know that it's as far as you think. I based much of my comment on a documentary from the UK that matches my observations. The guy found when he actually counted correctly he was over 100 units (~30-50 beers), yet no one considered him an alcoholic. I've noticed similar trends if you look at "social drinkers" and do accurate counting. 100% agree about the risk factors being reasonable. You're more likely to be the victim and perpetrator of crime, or be injured.

P_I_Staker 7y ago

Well put. I should have specified that I was talking about people who drink regularly. Looking at large populations aren't that useful here, as many people simply opt out, because they're sick, religion, or just don't like it. While I agree that the some of the risks are suspect, I tend to think the question is "how much risk are you willing to accept"? IMO it's appropriate to consider things like STDs, injury, violence, abuse, and incarceration as risks. These problems are common among drinkers due to the heavy impairment alcohol causes.